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Is It Now a Crime to Be Poor, a New York Times Op-Ed Column by Barbara Ehrenreich, Plus, Links to Three Book Titles on How to Smash Poverty, Homelessness, Unemployment: a Revolutionary Socialist Perspective:
Is it now a crime to be poor? Op-Ed New York Times column, by Barbara Ehrenreich, dated August 8, 2009.
The article, by the way, mentions how the town of St. Petersburg, Florida, has passed some increasingly simply tormenting, irrational, and sadistic laws against poor, homeless, working people here in the St. Petersburg, Florida, area. I live in St. Petersburg, and I can testify that the city government has, indeed, done this.
These links to 3 book titles below show how to smash homelessness, poverty, unemployment:
1. The Fight for Socialism, by Max Shachtman (1946) (American Workers Party Leader Max Shachtman’s 1946 Exposition of the Principles and Program of the Workers Party):
Index/Contents:
http://www.marx.org/archive/shachtma/1946/ffs/index.htm
2. Socialism on Trial, by James P. Cannon (1941) (American Socialist Workers Party leader James P. Cannon’s Verbatim Testimony in a U.S. Courtroom in Minneapolis, Minnesota, in 1941, in the 1941 Trial of 29 Supporters of the Socialist Workers Party Under the Smith Act):
Index/Contents:
http://www.marx.org/archive/cannon/works/1941/socialism/index.htm
3. The Death Agony of Capitalism and the Tasks of the Fourth International: The Mobilization of the Masses Around Transitional Demands to Prepare the Conquest of Power: The Transitional Program, by Leon Trotsky (1938):
Contents:
Comments
What Was the Old Soviet Union - Some Thoughts
There's been back-and-forth arguments on this sub-site of the "It's Your Times" site about what the old Soviet Union was, mainly stemming from my self-characterization of myself as a Marxist.
Some, such as Captain Al, have "defended" me against the label of "communist" by calling the old Soviet Union "communist" or "communistic."
Some, such as the fascist, Spanish fascist totalitarian right-wing labor-smashing dictator, Franco, and German Nazi fascist totalitarian dictator and Nazi Holocaust perpetrator, Hitler, fakenamed "Mayor of Moronia," have lumped the old Stalinist political system of the former Soviet Union with its economy of a state-owned and state-planned economy, and have implicitly accepted Captain Al's designation of "communistic" or "communism" as equal to the lumping together such fascist right-wingers like Mayor make.
But there is an alternative view to both the view of Mayor of Moronia and of Captain Al.
And that is the view of Marxists who will often interchangeably use the word, "socialism," and the word, "communism," and mean by both words something quite different from what existed in the old Soviet Union, or than what exists currently in contemporary China, or Cuba, or Vietnam, or North Korea.
There were any number of important Marxist political currents among workers and intellectuals that took their political inspiration from a kind of perspective similar to this third alternative.
And in some parts of the world, in fact, at least one of them, Trotskyism, acquired some significant followings. For instance, in Southern Vietnam in the 1930s, the "official" South Vietnamese Communist Party adhering to a Stalinist perspective was numerically inferior to the Vietnamese Trotskyist variety of communism, particularly in Saigon (which today is called, Ho Chi Minh City, since the victory in 1975 of the Vietnamese Revolution and armed forces of the DRV, Democratic Republic of Vietnam, or North Vietnam against the U.S.). Saigon, the former capital of the former country of South Vietnam, had a pretty rich and vibrant labor movement in the 1930s. And the labor movement of South Vietnam, especially in Saigon in the 1930s, gave its political support pretty much in Saigon political elections to two Trotskyist parties, both of which adhered not to Stalin or the official Stalinist-influenced "Third International" of that time, but to the aim of Trotsky and his international supporters to form a Fourth International opposed to the Stalinist-supported Third International, and also opposed to the reformist-minded Second International of Social-Democratic reformist labor parties. The Vietnamese Trotskyists in the 1930s in Saigon ran for election and some of them won posts in the Saigon city council.
Also, for a considerable period of time, in the little island of what used to be called, Ceylon, off the West Coast of India, for a number of years in particularly the 1930s, 1940s, and early 1950s, Trotskyism acquired a mass political following and at least officially was embodied in a Ceylonese political party called, the Lanka Sama Samaja Party. In fact, at one point, they even elected to the Ceylon parliament a number of deputies, including perhaps most famously the late Edmund Samarakkoddy, who was considered the venerable key leader of Ceylon revolutionary socialism for many years, and was himself one of the most distinguished leftist radical lawyers and attorneys in Ceylon, who devoted his great legal talents and legal skills to defending in the Ceylon courts many poor, oppressed individuals of many poor and oppressed communities in Ceylon, especially members of the nationally oppressed Tamil nationality people beaten down and oppressed by the Ceylon Sinhalese majority nationality.
Additionally, during World War Two, and the German Nazi occupation of many European countries, diverse representatives and individuals espousing a Trotskyist perspective worked underground against both Hitler's Nazi mass murderers and killers and their capitalist totalitarian imperialist Nazi imperialist occupation of their countries, and often suffered and died for their work for socialism. In Belgium, for instance, the former Zionist turned Trotskyist Belgian, Abram Leon, was very active in the underground Belgian Trotskyist movement while the Nazi scum occupied his country, and he was eventually caught by Hitler's Nazi gestapo killers, and sent to the Auschwitz death camp where he was murdered by Hitler's killers in 1944.
Additionally, the Trotskyists were a considerable numerical force in the Soviet Union's Stalinist slave labor camps and Stalinist prison camps themselves, and in the 1920s, for instance, after the Stalinist totalitarian bureaucracy smashed by physical totalitarian means all political oppositions in the ruling Soviet Communist Party, thousands -- and that word, thousands, is correct -- of Trotskyist workers and intellectuals (mainly workers, too), fighting for what they considered the political integrity and continuity of the Socialist Revolution of November 7, 1917 were sent to Stalin's first slave labor and prison camps in Siberia. There is a famous photograph of some of these militant Trotskyist communist internationalist revolutionaries dressed in their winter clothes at one of Stalin's slave labor prison camps in Siberia on the tenth anniversary of the Bolshevik Revolution of November 7, 1917 holding up protest signs and placards and pictures of the revolutionary leaders of the Bolshevik Revolution of November 7, 1917, Lenin, and Trotsky, in a protest demonstration against their imprisonment and incarceration, and also in a protest demonstration against what they saw as the bureaucratic Stalinist degeneration of the socialist revolution. Anyone interested should try to get ahold of the interesting book of Marxist and socialist and communist writings of political opponents of Stalin and of the Stalinist regime published by the socialist publishing company, Pathfinder Press (www.pathfinderpress.com), entitled, Samizdat: Voices of the Soviet Opposition. Trotskyists considered themselves Marxist communists operating in the tradition of authentic Marxism, and they considered Stalin to be a traitor to and betrayer of the original Bolshevik Revolution -- the socialist revolution -- of November 7, 1917. And they were no wimpy reformist-minded social-democratic reformists, but firm revolutionary Marxist communists who held that only world socialist revolutions in the course of which all the working people of the entire world took over the world and made it into a socialist world would save humanity, civilization, culture, and the planet, from destruction by the capitalist imperialist exploiters and predators off of humanity. They considered the Stalinist totalitarian bureaucracy as, in essentials, a bureaucracy that within the Soviet Union represented the outside pressures on the Soviet Union by the capitalist imperialist ruling classes of the rest of the world, a pressure that constantly threatened to undo the internal gains of the November 7, 1917 Russian Bolshevik Revolution.
Trotsky provided his most mature analysis of the Soviet Union and its nature in his 1937 book, The Revolution Betrayed: What Is the Soviet Union and Where Is It Going? Trotsky fought the Stalinist bureaucracy from 1923, while he was still one of the most prominent people in the Soviet government and in the Soviet ruling party, the Communist Party, till his murder by a Stalinist murderer and assassin in Mexico where Trotsky was then living in exile in 1940. And he was, perhaps, the most prominent Marxist communist opponent of Stalin and also Stalinism, and he had a following of often deeply courageous followers in many countries of the world who adhered to the original vision, aim, and perspective voiced by Lenin and Trotsky in the November 7, 1917 Bolshevik Revolution.
I should here add that there were a number of other Marxist opponents of Stalinism who never renounced the word, "communism," as representing their political views, and, in fact, they considered that "Stalinism," which they considered the real word for what had arisen in the old Soviet Union, to be a far more accurate and correct, scientifically speaking, word for the sort of regime that had arisen in the old Soviet Union than "communism" was or, for that matter, than "socialism" was.
There was a wing of the original Third International of Communist Parties which formed in 1919 which derived their political and programmatic inspiration not so much from the Trotskyist viewpoint, but from what came loosely to be called left-communism. Some of these people included, for instance, inside Russia, a guy named Timothy Sapronov, an eminent old worker-Bolshevik of Lenin's party whose revolutionary working class socialist activism and labor activism went back to the early part of the 20th Century, when he was working and struggling with other blue-collar working class revolutionary socialists in Lenin's party underground against the Russian tsarist police state, then in the 1905-1906 Russian Revolution, then through his and the Bolshevik Party (Russian Social-democratic Labor Party-Bolshevik, which was the name of Lenin's current of Russian socialism) opposition to World War One (1914-1918), then in his activism in the Russian Revolutions of March 1917 and November 1917, and then, in Sapronov's opposition to what he first discerned as bureaucratic developments in the Communist Party-ruled Soviet state early on, first starting in 1918, then continuing into the 1920s. Sapronov organized several of the oppositional currents not inspired by Trotsky and the Trotskyists, and the best known of his oppositional currents is known as the Democratic-Centralist opposition in 1926-1927. Sapronov, and his supporters, like Trotsky's followers and supporters, ended up in Stalinist slave labor and prison camps for their defense of what they considered to be the integrity and preservation of the Russian socialist revolution against what they saw as the bureaucratic degeneration of the socialist revolution and what they saw as its movement back in the direction of capitalism. Their main difference with the Trotskyist opposition is that Trotsky never used the term, "capitalism," or "state capitalism," to characterize the Stalinistically bureaucratically degenerated Soviet state, but, rather, Trotsky characterized that state as what he called, a "bureaucratically degenerated workers' state," while Sapronov considered the new Stalinist bureaucracy as embodying a new kind of capitalist exploitation, a kind of "state-capitalism." But both Sapronov, and Trotsky, both considered themselves commuists in the Marxist sense, and internationalist revolutionaries in the Marxist sense.
Another old Bolshevik revolutionary worker was, Gabriel Miasnikov, who, like Sapronov, had a revolutionary labor activist and socialist political career going back to the days of work in the underground of Russia when the tsarist police state was the type of the government there, and like Sapronov, Miasnikov, too, was active in organizing several working class socialist-minded political oppositions, including one in 1918, and one in 1923. He again always considered himself a communist and internationalist. He was also expelled from the ruling Soviet party earlier than either Sapronov or Trotsky were. I do recall that both Trotsky and Sapronov were expelled from the ruling party by 1929, and I believe Trotsky had been expelled in 1928, but Miasnikov was expelled in 1923. The only reason these diverse Marxist revolutionaries were expelled from the ruling communist party of their own country was, the growing totalitarianization of the Stalinist bureaucratic caste in that country as it rose to power and sought to destroy all Marxist opponents and Marxist oppositions to Stalin's rule.
There were other Marxist opponents of Stalinism and what they falsely considered to be the term, communism, which, they felt, Stalin, and the Stalinists, had falsely usurped or stolen from what real Marxist communism really meant.
The group of people formerly close to Trotsky in Holland, for instance, around a fellow named Sneevliet, who later came to gravitate closer to a left-communist perspective, were compelled to go underground and work in the underground in Holland after Holland was imperialistically invaded by German Nazi fascist totalitarian right-wing killer and murderer and thug, Hitler, in the early period of World War Two (1939-1945), and in 1942, this group of left-socialist, communist-internationalist-minded Marxists, were discovered by the Nazi gestapo murderers, and were murdered by the Nazi occupiers - in, moreover, a torture-oriented fashion. The Nazis hung these courageous Marxist internationalist communists with piano wire. This sort of torture was par for the course for fascists in power. Sneevliet's group was not Trotskyist, but they did consider themselves adherents of a kind of Marxist internationalist socialist/communist viewpoint. They participated in Holland in, for instance, some brief uprisings of Dutch working class people against both the Nazi occupation of Holland and in defense of Dutch Jews against the Nazi killers' seizure of Dutch Jews for extermination in the Nazi death camps.
Different Marxist communists in the period of especially 1939-1945, World War Two, had it tough because they were targets of being murdered by both Hitler's German Nazi killers, Mussolini's Italian fascist killers, and Stalin's killers. In well-known and late Soviet dissident and writer, Alexander Solzhenitsyn's book, The Gulag Archipelago, Solzhenitsyn notes that the inmates of Stalin's slave labor camps who had the toughest time from the Stalinist-appointed overseers of the slave labor and prison camps were any prisoners with the letter, "T," before their names. To Stalin and the Stalinists, the letter, "T," meant that they were "Trotskyites," and the word, "Trotskyite" (in contradiction to the correct word, Trotskyist), was the typical Stalinist slur term for any Marxist who adhered to the views of Leon Trotsky. But, of course, by the time of the mass murders and purges of political prisoners in Stalin's slave labor camps in 1935, 1936, 1937, 1938, 1939, any Marxist-communist-minded political prisoners in Stalin's slave labor camps were all lumped together and called "Trotskyites." So the letter, "T," in front of the names of many Marxist-minded political prisoners did not always accurately reflect the kind of Marxist socialism or communism espoused by the particular kind of political prisoner so labeled by the Stalinist government of the country or the Stalinist-appointed prison and camp guards.
At the conclusion of World War II, 1939-1945, a group of revolutionary socialists who called themselve the Internationalist Communists of Buchenwald, surfaced in one of Hitler's Nazi slave labor death camps, Buchenwald death camp. These courageous revolutionaries had had to operate in complete and utter secrecy and clandestine conditions in the inside of the Nazi-overseen Buchenwald death camp during the period of German Nazi rule. And inside the Buchenwald camp, they not only had to watch out for the Nazi killers, but they sometimes had to watch out inside the same camp for other political prisoners who were Stalinists -- Communist Party supporters -- because the Stalinist regime in Russia had long since concluded in the 1930s that anybody considered a "Trotskyite" should be killed. By the time of the middle 1930s, for instance, Stalin himself, and the Stalinist regime, had a policy of killing Marxist opponents of his. In 1938, when a long-time Soviet intelligence official named Ignace Reiss, working in dangerous conditions on behalf of the Soviet intelligence network in Europe, and whose political history went back to the days of the Socialist Revolution of November 7, 1917, wrote to the Central Committee of the Soviet ruling party resigning his membership in the Soviet party, returning his Order of Lenin medals, breaking from the Soviet party and the Third International, and declaring in support of Trotsky's Fourth International, Stalinist agents of the Soviet party in Europe murdered Reiss and his bullet-riddled body was found not far from Lausanne, Switzerland. After this occurred, Trotsky and his followers launched an international campaign to try to save the life of Elisabeth Poretsky, Reiss's widow, and, fortunately, she was able to get out of the Soviet Union and be saved. She later wrote a book about her experiences entitled, Our Own People. The title was taken by a statement her husband, himself a dedicated Communist, but one who hated Stalin's guts as a traitor and betrayer of the Russian socialist revolution, and a courageous Soviet spy and agent working in very tough and dangerous conditions in Europe when Hitler's Nazi government was very much a power in Europe, had once said to her. He had said, "Either the enemy will kill us or our own people will hang us." That statement embodied the political confusion -- a tragic kind of political confusion -- of dedicated revolutionary communists who, on one side, tried to defend the basic nationalized means of production of their own country, the Soviet Union, which they rightly saw as having issued out of the 1917 socialist revolution, and which they rightly also saw as embodying and retaining some element of social and economic progress, but, on the other side, saw Stalinism and the Stalinists as not only betrayers and traitors, but also confusedly as "our own people." Reiss, a gutsy man, embodied in some sense that confusion. By the time he broke with the ruling Soviet government in 1938, it had long since passed the point wherein an authentic communist dissenter and devoted Marxist could break with it and move toward a genuine Marxist alternative if he was in the Soviet spy apparatus; that was considered the rankest kind of heresy by Stalin and his gangsters. And they repaid it with murdering Reiss.
There is another book by another courageous Soviet intelligence agent, Leopold Trepper, who organized perhaps the most sophisticated Soviet underground spy network of Soviet spies and Soviet agents in Europe in precisely the period when the Soviet Union's most horrific enemy, Hitler, and his Nazi government, had invaded the Soviet Union in 1941, and was threatening to destroy the Soviet Union and replace it's nationalized means of production with private capitalism by violent Nazi means. Trepper's book is entitled, The Great Game: Memoirs of the Spy Hitler Couldn't Silence. Trepper's underground Soviet intelligence network came to be feared and also admired by their main enemy, the Nazis, and the Nazis dubbed Trepper's organization "the Red Orchestra." Trepper, although he was a hardcore devoted Soviet agent, was, like his counterpart, Reiss, one who hated Stalin's guts and had concluded that Stalin had become a traitor to socialist and Marxist and communist ideals of the 1917 Revolution. After courageously defending by underground spy means the Soviet Union throughout his underground World War Two years of 1941-1945 in Europe, Trepper was called back to Moscow (Russia) -- and promptly thrown into a series of Stalinist prisons, mainly because, having lived in and become acquainted with Western Europe, Stalin and the Stalinist government considered Trepper too "untrustworthy" even despite his manifest and dedicated courage in defending the Soviet Union in the darkest years of World War II (1941-1945). In 1954, after Stalin's death in 1953, Trepper was released from prison, and he was allowed to migrate back to his original home country of Poland. In the 1960s, a series of Polish Stalinist-government-orchestrated anti-Jewish, anti-Semitic campaigns put Trepper into a difficult spot, forcing him into house arrest, and particularly after he signed an international letter of left-wing working class and socialist political and intellectual leaders opposing the Soviet invasion of Czechoslovakia and defending the Prague Spring against Stalinism in 1968, Trepper was kept under close surveillance by the Polish Stalinist (Communist Party) government. But an international campaign waged by left-wing intellectuals and worker leaders on his behalf finally enabled him to leave Poland, and in his last years, he settled first in England, and subsequently, just before he died, in Israel
In his book on his experiences as a Soviet spy against Hitler working on behalf of the Soviet Union in World War II, Trepper made an interesting statement. He said, of all the left-wing Marxist opponents of Stalin, the ones who had the greatest right to speak were, the Trotskyists, and, he added (and this is from memory, so it may not be as exact as I would have wished it), but they should remember that unlike the rest of us, they had a coherent political program and system by which to replace Stalin and Stalinism. And, Trepper also noted, they never capitulated to Stalin and Stalinism, because they did not see Stalin and Stalinism as being in the interests of socialism and communism. Rather, they never capitulated to Stalinism because they saw such a capitulation as not serving the interests of socialism, communism, the working class, or the Soviet Union. Trepper's book, The Great Game, is a hair-raising, but also fascinating, book on the historical period of the 1930s, 1940s, 1950s, and Trepper's experience opposing the two main totalitarians of modern times, Hitler, and Stalin, and what Trepper went through to do so. But it is also a testament to the socialist and Marxist and, yes, communist, integrity of the guy, who never renounced the word, communism, but simply felt Stalin and Stalinism did not mean what the original and authentic meaning of the word, communism, meant.
I mentioned earlier the political influence in Vietnam of Trotskyism in the 1930s. In the period before World War II, Vietnam (which had originally been called by its French occupiers French Indochina) had been occupied by French imperialism and colonialism. Japanese imperialism eventually drove out the French in the early years of World War II and replaced the occupation of Vietnam by Japanese occupation of Vietnam. In those conditions, of course, the Vietnamese Trotsyists, like their Belgian counterparts under Nazi occupation, had to work underground. In 1944-45, the U.S. and Britain militarily defeated Japan and the Japanese were forced to withdraw from Vietnam. During the period of the Second World War, Vietnamese Communist Party leader, Stalinist Ho Chi Minh, had worked for awhile as a United States agent in the O.S.S., Office of Strategic Services, against Japanese occupation of Vietnam. The O.S.S. was one of the predecessors to what became the C.I.A., Central Intelligence Agency. In 1945, a mass uprising of the Vietnamese workers and peasants broke out in Vietnam. The masses of the people of Vietnam threw up what they called "peoples' assemblies" or "peoples' committees." These mass elected assemblies of the people (of the workers and peasants) were roughly the same kinds of mass elected organs and organizations that in 1917 in Russia the workers, peasants, soldiers, and sailors there had thrown up and called soviets, and they were the same kinds of mass elected organs and organizations that in 1918-1919 in the period of the German Revolution after the defeat of Germany in World War I (1914-1918) the German workers, soldiers, sailors, farm laborers, and peasants had thrown up and called workers councils. The Vietnamese workers and peasants elected to leadership in some of these elected councils some of the Trotskyists who in the 1930s had played a significant role in Saigon labor socialist politics. These Vietnamese Trotskyists in their political program called for both an independent Vietnam and a socialist Vietnam based on the workers and peasants' councils, a position that was both socialist and anti-imperialist and anti-colonialist. But Ho Chi Minh, leader of the Vietnamese Stalinist party, did not like this situation one bit. He and his Stalinists had aquired a significant power in the Northern part of Vietnam. They sent goon squads and thugs into the areas where there were Trotskyist leaders -- Vietnamese Trotskyist leaders -- elected to delegate status of the Vietnamese peoples' assemblies. These goon squads seized these Vietnamese Trotskyists, took them out, trucked them off, and shot all of them. Ho did that because he was partly trying to prove his loyalty to the United States and to Harry Truman in order that Vietnam would become united, but under him, Ho, and so that the U.S. might pressure the French imperialist and colonialist state to stay out of Vietnam. But Harry Truman gave his response when, in 1946, after receiving telegrams from Ho Chi Minh quoting the American Declaration of Independence of 1776 back to Truman, Truman threw Ho Chi Minh's telegrams into the wastepaper basket. The U.S. firmly supported French capitalist imperialism's and colonialism's re-seizure of Vietnam. This in turn compelled the war in Vietnam against French imperialism on the part of Ho Chi Minh to finally be resumed. The Vietnamese ended up fighting under Ho against French imperialism till the French were expelled in 1954, and then against American imperialism from 1954 to 1975, when the Americans and their last agents were finally expelled from the country.
But the point here is, Trotskyism, a left-current opposed to Stalinism, had considerable numbers of adherents in Vietnam at one point, and they never repudiated the word, communism. They considered themselves authentic communists, and they considered the so-called "Communist" Parties to have improperly hung onto and retained that word against what it really meant.
And by what it really meant, they went back to Marx, Engels, and Lenin, who held that communism meant a classless, stateless society without class divisions or class exploitation or repressions or prisons or cops of any kind, and also saw socialism as merely the lowest phase of that kind of society. And the Trotskyists, as well as other Marxist opponents of Stalin and Stalinism, like Sapronov, and Miasnikov, and the Sneevliet group in Holland, and here in this country the late Paul Mattick and his Living Marxism group, and Trotskyists here, too, all would have, I think, agreed that Marx and Engels and, at least formally, Lenin, held that you could not have had real socialism or real communism so long as the institution or organization of the state (police, prisons, special bodies of armed people plus prisons) continued existing.
So I wanted to set the record straight on the word, communism, and the word, socialism.
Neither of those words mean Stalinism.
I do not repudiate and I do not renounce the authentic meaning of the word, communism, as, it seems, Captain Al makes me out to repudiate and renounce.
Nor do I lump together the nationalized planned economy of countries where private capitalism has been dispossessed with the often repressive Stalinist governments overseeing those sorts of anti-capitalistic economic and social overturns.
I am probably closer to Trotsky's analysis in The Revolution Betrayed in my consideration as to the nature of the remaining formally mislabeled countries of North Korea, Vietnam, Cuba, China, as being called "communist" or "socialist," labels I believe to be improperly and anti-scientifically applied to these countries.
I do think it's better to have nationalized means of production than it is not to have them.
But that is not the same thing as either socialism or communism.
Best for now,
Allan
75 dollars an hour
David, I Owned A Mail Order Catalog House For ---
David. I owned a mail order catalog house for 22 years from l950 to l972 and I never made $75.00 AN HOUR. Allan has never explained how anyone can afford to pay workers $75.00 an hour and STAY IN BUSINESS. How in the hell can you own a McDonald's and pay workers $75.00 an hour and sell Bic Macs for $2.00? You would have to charge $30.00 for a big Mac and $l5.00 for a soda so your $75.00 an hour would not be worth a PENNY MORE than what you are earning right now. We have had countries where people earned 2 to 3 MILLION AN HOUR. Bread cost $600,000, milk, $900,000. etc. It is not called SOCIALISM. It is called RUNAWAY INFLATION and always results in complete change of currency or national bankruptcy. You would not like $75.00 an hour, David. I GUARANTEE IT. God bless.
It Is NOT
It is NOT IMPORTANT the number of dollars we speak about, it is THE RATIO OF DOLLARS OF THE AVERAGE MIDDLE CLASS TO THE NUMBER OF DOLLARS OF THE VERY WEALTHY THAT IS IMPORTANT.
The theoretical $75 per hour IS MINSCULE compared to the ACTUAL multiple HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS individuals are raking in TODAY WITHOUT ANY PRODUCTIVITY.
The top CEO's of energy companies ALL MADE more than 100 MILLION DOLLARS each this year with the #1 guy making 702 MILLION DOLLARS. Top hedge fund managers MAKE FIVE TIMES THAT every year. That equates to THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS AN HOUR!
Wise Merlin
Merlin, you're still thinking in terms of "very wealthy"
Merlin: in a revolutionary, socialist, proletarian, workers' state, there will not be "very wealthy."
There will not be these obscenely overpaid types.
Nor will there be obscenely underpaid types.
That's the point of confiscating -- expropriating -- the capitalist enterprises, banks, mines, mills, corporations, industries, finance.
It's to remove by economically and socially expropriating and confiscating the ruling class from the scene.
If some of them will peaceably subordinate themselves to the revolutionary socialist majority will and go to work at the wages and salaries made by the enormous majority, and peaceably adhere to the rules of the proletarian socialist workers' government of elected workers' councils, and not, by gun, by bomb, by sword, by terror, seek to thwart the will of the socialist majority, then there's no reason they cannot live on a basis of civil and civic and citizenship equality with the rest of the masses of people in a new workers' state.
But you're still thinking in terms of classes of obscenely wealthy existing as social and economic classes.
You're still thinking in terms of there being a "bosses' reality."
That's why you cannot envision something as reasonable and logical and commonsensical as a $75 dollar minimum wage.
--Allan
Allan. What Socialist Invented the electric Bulb, Phone, Pllane-
Allan, what socialist invented the electric bulb, phone, plane, auto, computer, etc? Men like the Wright brothers, Edison, Bell, Gates created INVENTIONS THAT CREATED MILLIONS OF JOBS. Henry Ford did not invent the auto but he did invent the assembly line. Ford did not invent the assembly line so he COULD WORK IN THE ASSEMBLY LINE He invented it so he could be very wealthy. Inventors like Ford, Edison, etc. deserve to become very wealthy. They made America the great country that it is. I agree that the very wealthy should pay more in income taxes that they currently do but they do deserve to live in bigger homes than we do, have better cars, more luxuries, etc. than the average man. I read a biography on Ford. When other employers were paying their workers back around l9l0 about $2.00 an hour, Ford was paying his workers $5.00 an hour. He said he paid them that much so that his workers could afford the Fords they made. I love you Allan. I know you are going to hate me but socialists are excellent when it comes to expropriating but they sure suck when it comes to inventing. God bless.
Actually, Edison Stole the Idea from a Guy Named Tzara
Actually, Al, Edison stole the idea from a Czech scientist, engineer and inventor named -- if my memory serves me right -- Tzara, or the name was close to that.
The Czech guy ended up broke.
Edison ended up rich.
If that doesn't prove my point, I don't know what does.
The actual producer of the original invention ended up broke.
The guy who stole it ended up rich.
That undermines your point and proves my point.
--Allan
Allan, I will not Play Ping Pong With Any Poster.
Allan, I will not play ping pong with any poster.
I do not give a fiddler's frown if it was Tzara or
Tarzan who had the idea of a light bulb. Every history book I read credits
Edison as being the inventer of the light bulb.
Perhaps Tarzan, when he was not making love
to the beautiful actress Maureen O'Sullivan in
244 jungle movies in Hollywood, gave Edison
the idea. All I know is without Edison all you
Socialists would still be lighting candles and
instead of expropriating Progress Energy,
you radicals would take over Progess Candle
Co. and DRIVE THEM INTO BANKRUPTCY, ALONG
WITH THE UNITED STATES, BY PAYING ALL THE
WORKERS $75.00 An Hour. God bless.
Correction Again CaptainAl
Another correction for you CaptainAl. Edison invented the DC lightbulb. Tesla invented the AC lightbulb. Therefore, even though you think you are turning on Edison's invention, you are actually turning on Tesla's invention. Think Tesla when you turn on your house lights, think of Edison when you turn on your flashlight.
If we would have stayed with Edison's DC electrical system we would be required to have an electrical power plant every mile or so due to the inability of DC current to retain its electrical power more than a mile. AC current allows for transformers and voltage step up and step down to transmit electrical power over hundreds of miles.
Wise Merlin
MERLIN, AS USUAL IS WRONG.
PROFESSIONAL CHARACTER ASSASSIN.
Telephones, of course, operate on DC (direct current) and power stations along the cable path are rare. The phone company stopped using AC ringers long ago.
Excuse Me
Excuse me, Mr. Mayor Of Moronia, you might wanna look it up. You would see that I am correct. I did not mention a telephone to begin with. To that though, I will state that a telephone utilizes so little electricity that the resistance of the wire is negligible to the operation of the telephone (unlike almost every other electrical appliance that runs on electricity). Furthermore telephones and telephone lines utilize BOTH AC and DC current.
I now reference the History channel program "Mad Electricity" that explains in laymens terms the how, whys and wherefores of AC versus DC current in Edison's and Tesla's day that resulted in AC current being far superior to DC current (and the factual distance difference and power degridation between AC and DC current transmission), therefore the ONLY current used today.
I would suggest you stick with horror stories rather than scientific facts if you do not want to do the research before bellowing what you THINK you know.
Wise Merlin
Let Me Put It Terms
Let me put it term EVEN the Mayor of Moronia would understand: (hopefully)
Electrical POWER is utilized to accomplish WORK. A telephone DOES NOT do any work. A telephone transmits a signal. Therefore, a miniscule amount of electricity is sufficient. ANY OTHER electrical appliance, motor, or electronic item DOES WORK and therefore requires far more electrical energy in order to accomplish the task, therefore a DC system would require electrical re-generation every mile or so.
I hope this gives you some clarity into scientific reality.
Wise Merlin
DITTO FOR A/C
PROFESSIONAL CHARACTER ASSASSIN.
AC uses less electricity to do the same amount of work AND AC uses transformers to maintain a constant voltage along the line; DC doesnt. DC certainly performs work; most large electrical motors use DC power.
Again, You
Again, you jump around trying to prove your point when the point is not proven from your original statement. You state, "a telephone uses DC current." I stated a telephone DOES NOT do any work, it merely transmits a signal. That is why the signal will carry a long way.
Of course there are many large electrical motors that use DC current, BUT ONLY AFTER AC current is switched (by the use of an AC to DC inverter) to DC current at the site of the motor.
BUT AGAIN, my original statement that DC current cannot be transmitted further than approximately a mile is STILL CORRECT.
Wise Merlin
I Think You Might
I think you might be thinking of Nicholi Tesla. Edison hired Tesla and told him he would give him a $10,000 bonus for certain inventions which Tesla worked out and solved. When Tesla asked Edison for his bonus Edison laughed at Tesla and told him Edison was joking and Tesla got nothing.
This deception caused Tesla to quit and become Edison's greatest rival. Edison was a DC current guy and Tesla was an AC current guy. Tesla won the contract to light the World's Fair and Edison tried to sabotage Tesla by refusing to allow Tesla to use Edison's light bulb. Tesla invented a different light bulb design that was cheaper and more efficient to produce and beat Edison at his own game.
Although Tesla did not amass the wealth Edison did, he was "light-years" ahead of Edison. Edison did not invent many things, he would garner the inventions of his employees (like Tesla) and patent them under his own name. Edison even went around killing Elephants in the public square with Tesla's AC current to try to defeat Tesla. Edison's greatest skill was being a con artist stealing others inventions (one of the Mayor of Moronia's heros). Edison was one of the first to use corporate rights to steal inventions from his employees without compensation.
Wise Merlin
Merlin, Thank you for Correcting me.
Merlin, I know nothing about inventions. I
know nothing about THOUSANDS OF SUBJECTS
and knowing this fact, makes me very intelligent.
Really STUPID people do NOT KNOW they are
stupid in THOUSANDS OF SUBJECTS. I DO. So
Edison was a crook. He hired people to invent
products and, then, his name appeared on the
patent rights as the inventor. Now, thanks to
you, Merlin, I am just a tiny less bit stupid when
it comes to inventions. God bless.
Merlin: It was Tesla. You are right about that.
Merlin: it was Tesla. I got the name wrong. You are right on this.
Thanks for correcting me in this issue.
Best wishes always,
Allan
Sorry. In The Post Above I Made An Error.
Sorry, In the Post Above I made an error.
In l9l0 workers in the U. S. made $2.00 a DAy,
not an HOUR. Ford paid his workers $5.00 a
Day, not $5.00 an hour...About 60 yeers ago
back in Brooklyn one of my friends "Red"
Kelly was so lazy he married a pregnant woman.
God bless.
Inventors Deserve Every Penny They Receive.
Inventors deserve every penny they receive. EXECUTIVES DO NOT, ESPCIALLY CEOS. As with socialists, CEOs and executives invent nothing. I recall one CEO of a giant corporation actually LOST MONEY ONE YEAR and he STILL RECEIVED A SALARY AND A BONUS OF 80 MILLION. What CEOs do best is merge with competitors which helps kill competition and almost always results in a multitude of lost jobs. Mergers are great for companies but are bad for workers and consumers as these mergers generally translate into higher prices. Yes, CEOs do deserve to make much more money than workers but not 522 TIMES AS MUCH as the AP recently reported. God bless.
Edison Stole the "Invention" from Another Guy. Ditto Gates.
Edison stole the idea from a Czech guy, Captain Al.
Ditto for Bill Gates, who stole the original idea for the Windows operating system from another guy, a scientist who ended up broke.
Gates got rich.
The real inventor got broke.
That confirms and proves my point.
Capitalism results in the people who produce not getting back the fruits of their labor.
The people who get the fruits of their labor are, money managers who are good at manipulating money.
But the inventors, scientists, engineers, geniuses, end up broke.
--Allan
Allan, Okay, Gates and Edison Were Legal Crooks Who Legallly----
Allan,Okay, Gates and Edison were legal crooks wo stole inventions from others. All I know is the inventions and windows operation CREATED MILLIONS OF JOBS IN AMERICA. What socialist stole an invention or idea and created even ONE JOB? You claim engineers, scientists,etc. end up broke. I know one engineer who worked for either GM, Ford or Chrysler and made 600 thousand A YEAR. He went into his business in England, I believe, manufacturing his own cars and the company went busted. He, also, was indicted for selling huge amounts of cocaine but was found not guilty. I am sure Wise Merlin, who was or is an engineer, would know his name. In any event, he did earn $600.000 a year as an engineer for GM, Ford or Chrysler. Math was my worse subject for the few years I was in school but I am sure that $600,000 a year is a lot more than the cockamamie $75.00 minimum wage you are going to pay all workers when socialistists take over the country. The ping pong table is yours. I have to run. God bless.
Delorean
It was John Zachary DeLorean.
Wise Merlin
Thank YOu Again, Merlin, For Your Help.
Thank you again, Merlin, for your help. I could not for the life of me remember his first name and was not at all really sure I had his last name correctly. I can't blame my age. I can remember so many things that happened even 70 to 80 years ago, but I was horrible, even at 20 or 80, when it came to names. At parties, because I had forgotten all the names of everyone that I had been introduced to, I would call Bill, John and John, Bill. John and Bill and everyone else at the party would call me "Al" and I marveled at how in the hell they could remember my name. My biggest "sin" is when I would call a wife or lover "Joan" when her name was "Marcia" and I would call "Marcia" "Joan". It is needless to add that Marcia and Joan were my lovers. I did the same with my 3 wives. It is a wonder I lived to 88. God bless.
Allan, Immediately After Writing The Above Post I Remembered ---
Allan, immediately after writing the above post
I remembered his name. I am positive his name
was DeLorenzo, although I am not sure of the
exact spelling. I still have excellent retention for
88 but I am horrible when it comes to exact
detail. It is possible he was a designer and not
an engineer for GM, Ford or Chrysler. Engineer,
designer, etc. are all the same to me. A pimp, to
me, is different from a designer or engineer. I
live in fear of Wise Merlin. That lovaable bastard
is so damn good at research that he will dig deeply
ancd come up with the fact that DeLorenzo
actually wasa pimp for GM, Ford or Chrysler. If
the Big Three do hire pimps and pay them
$600,000 a year, is it any wonder they are going
busted? God bless.
Again, on the issue of Edison, Merlin got Tesla right
Again, on the Edison issue, Merlin got the name of the guy, Nicholas Tesla, right.
Also, I want to compliment Merlin on the rest of his post on Nicholas Tesla for saying the point I was trying to get at on this matter.
--Allan
Actually
Actually, the 702 MILLION DOLLARS the CEO made this year equates to $245,454 per hour (based on a 55 hour work week, 52 week year)
Wise Merlin
To Put It
To put it another way, that 702 MILLION DOLLAR salary generates a $40,909 individual (yearly) salary EVERY MINUTE.
That equates to 17,160... 40 thousand dollar salaries in one year. This is a staggering mind-boggling statistic. 17,160 people could have a reasonable middle class life with the money THIS ONE CEO garners in one year.
Does THIS sound like a severe inequity in wealth distribution to you??? How can it NOT be a severe inequity!!!!!!!
Wise Merlin
Merlin, Allan is ready to revolt. Are YOU? I'M NOT!
Merlin, Allan is ready to revolt. Are you? I'm not!
Timing is everything. Russia was ready for a
revolution after World War I. The peasants
refused to give up their World War I guns and
they used these guns to overthrow a very
cruel plutocracy that treated the poor workers
more like slaves than workers. As one peasant
said, "My rich farm owner boss traded me to
another rich farmer for a horse!" When our
American bosses start trading us for horses that
will be the perfect time to revolt. My solution?
FDR and Truman raised the income tax on the
very wealthy to 90%. If a man makes 80
MILLION, we get 72 MILLION. He still gets 8
million which is more than most of us would make
in hundreds of years. I know you are lurking
somewhere, Mayor. What is your solution?
I know your solution, Allan, would be to trade him
for a horse and take all 80 MILLION, you sneaky,
socialistic horse-trader, you. God bless.
Revolt
People have been telling me I am revolting for many years.
In fact, after I came back from Viet Nam, was when I started to be revolting and protesting.
Wise Merlin
Merlin, I Agree With YOu. Viet Nam was Not A Popular War.
Merlin, I agree with you. Viet Nam was not
a popular war. World War II was. I was
treated as a hero. You fellows actually were
more heroes that we World War II veterans.
We World War II veterans believed World War
II was a war worth fighting and dying for.
Viet Nam was not a war worth fighting and dying
for. This is a world I never made. If I had made it
there would not have been a Korean War,
a Viet Nam war and both wars in Iraq. Also,
Gore, not Bush, would have won the 2000 election.
God bless.
COMMAND ECONOMIES DONT WORK.
PROFESSIONAL CHARACTER ASSASSIN.
Allan advocates a command economy such as the old USSR had. But the reality is a few heads arent better than millions of heads. Millions of consumers let you know quickly how valuable your goods and services are. When FORD made the Edsel and no one wanted it, they stopped making Edsels. In a command economy an Edsel is what all the peasants drive if the bureacrats decide to make Edsels.
Bureaucrats decide every aspect of your life: where you live, what you do, how many kids you have, what you read and watch on tv, what you eat, and when you can see a doctor. Panels of idiots decide everything.
And so the people get fed up eating chicken necks and beans, and black markets appear for all the stuff people want.
Mayor, In all Fairness to Allan, Russia never Was ----
Mayor, in all fairness to Allan, Russia never was socialistic. They were communistic. It does not matter. Communism is a failure, Socialism is a failure and I really believe our form of Democracy in America is a failure. We had an excellent democracy at one time but in the last 40 years, we have become a plutocracy, a govt. run by the rich and their lobbyists in Wash. D. C. We are l4 TRILLION DOLLARS IN DEBT. If China demanded the Trillions we owe them which they loaned us, we would have a tough time paying them back. If Obama fails there is a good chance that China will end up advising us how to run our country. I don't know about you but I do not want our country run by former Chinese laundry men. No tickee, no shirtee. There is no ticket. There is no shirt. We lost our shirt 40 years ago. God bless.
Mayor: Hitler-Lover, Fascism-Lover, Talking Against "Command"
Mayor of Moronia: Hitler Lover talking against "Command" "Economies."
Mayor of Moronia: Spanish Fascist Franco Lover talking against "Command" "Economies."
It's like Charles Manson, or Ted Bundy, or Jeffrey Dahmer talking against mass murder.
Am I the only one here to see the insane irony?
UNION OF SOVIET SOCIALIST REPUBLICS
PROFESSIONAL CHARACTER ASSASSIN.
The name says it all, Al.
Do your homework.
Mayor, I Believe It was Shakespeare who said---
Mayor, I believe it was Shakespeare who said, "What's in a name? That which we call a rose By any other name would smell as sweet. Communism, Socialism are all the same to me. One stinks as much as the other. I hate homework, Mayor, and that is why I quit school at l6. Another good reason for quitting school was I got a job in a Brooklyn factory during the depression years of l936 and made $.30 an hour, $l2,00 a week and that, with the $l.00 a day my brother earned working as a clerk in a store helped my unemployed tailor father and mother keep a roof over our heads. God bless.
Mayor: Hitler-Lover, Fascism-Lover, Talking Against "Command"
Mayor of Moronia: Hitler Lover talking against "Command" "Economies."
Mayor of Moronia: Spanish Fascist Franco Lover talking against "Command" "Economies."
It's like Charles Manson, or Ted Bundy, or Jeffrey Dahmer talking against mass murder.
Am I the only one here to see the insane irony?
What Was Hitler's Nazi War Economy If Not a Command Economy?
What in the hell was Hitler's Nazi war economy if not a "command" economy?
As for the issue of "what works," that depends on what is meant by "work."
Never in the old Soviet Union was there the kind of massive unemployment there historically has been during bust parts of the capitalist boom-bust cycle. Never.
The key reason in the old Soviet Union there wasn't that was, there was no profit in unemployment.
There is in capitalism.
There isn't in state-owned economies.
And it has nothing to do with being a "command" economy.
The reason there was no unemployment in the old Soviet Union was not due to the Stalinist clique at the top. It was because the economy was state-owned.
Hitler, on the other hand, had a genuine "command" economy. It was private capitalism. When he got into power, he DE-nationalized all the nationalized industries which 50 years of labor effort on the part of the German Social-Democratic Party and trade unions had succeeded in getting nationalized. Hitler did that basically because he was like Ronald Reagan in his economic policies, only moreso.
But once he went to war, his government ordered so many planes, so many ships, so many tanks, so many guns, in order to insure the capitalist economy produced them. And they did.
Calling the Soviet economy, even under Stalin, a "command" economy, and ignoring Hitler's Nazi economy, is sort of like calling two spoons one spoon and one something else. It's ludicrously idiotic.
The advantage the Soviets had over the Nazis is, they got rid of unemployment by nationalizing all the industries and finance. Hitler didn't. The Soviets did.
As for what was advantageous, despite all the evils of Stalinist bureaucracy, and even in spite of those evils, the nationalized nature of the economy led to free quality health care for all, guaranteed housing for all, guaranteed jobs for all, a base rate of pay for all, and this in a country which had started out quite poor. They were able to modernize and industrialize because they had state ownership, and so, they didn't have all these private capitalist ruling class interests standing in the way of modernization and industrialization.
And they industrialized and modernized twice: once after the end of the First World War (1914-1918) and end of the Civil War (1918-1922), and they started modernizing and industrializing seriously in the 1930s; and again, after the end of World War Two (1941-1945 for the Soviets, who were invaded by Hitler in 1941). In both instances, they were able to rebuild from scratch their entire industrial infrastructure -- both times, from scratch. And that's not because of Stalin. It was despite Stalin. It was because they had state ownership.
Additionally, during World War Two, the reason they beat Hitler's Nazi invasion was also because they had state ownership. The Soviets were able to move their entire industrial war-fighting capacity from the West of the country to the far East of the country, out of the way of the Nazi invaders, out of harm's way, and they literally moved entire factories and entire industrial plants. Hitler, despite his country having a capitalist command economy, could not do that, because Hitler was still a capitalist politician, although a brutal, fascist, totalitarian capitalist politician. But the Soviets could, because they had state ownership -- nationalization of all basic industries.
Advantages of nationalization of all basic industry are even shown in much smaller countries of the Soviet type, like Cuba, originally one of the poorest countries in the Western Hemisphere, and sucked dry of profits for decades by American corporations and American capitalism till the Cuban Revolution of 1959-1961 nationalized everything and made it social property of the people.
Despite this country's being one of the poorest on earth, they have one of the best health care systems in the Western hemisphere, and they give women and especially children the best health care. In fact, their system of pre-natal mothers' and childrens' health care is better than here in the U.S. for most women and children. Most women and children here in the U.S. have either unreliable insurance, which may or may not cover them, or, in the cases of 48 million of us, no health coverage. But it's all covered in Cuba.
And that is not because of Castro. Rather, that's because they nationalized their country's industries and lands and made them social property.
Stalinism, whether of the Stalin type, Castro type, Khruschev type, Ho Chi Minh type, Kim Il Sung type, is not beneficial for state-owned economies. It's a drag on them. I share the view of Trotsky, who, in his book, The Revolution Betrayed, noted that a socialist economy operates far better with democratic administration by elected workers' councils from below, because state ownership implies the necessity of the producing class -- the working class -- to criticize freely, from below, and for those elected by the workers to be accountable to the workers, the producers. I agree with Trotsky on that.
--Allan
THEY PRETEND TO PAY, WE PRETEND TO WORK.
PROFESSIONAL CHARACTER ASSASSIN.
This was the motto of the USSR. People went to work and sat on their butts, there was nothing to buy with the money they got for 'working.'
Allan speaks of full employment, but the Gross Nataional Product of the USSR was very small.
Mayor of Moronia: Hitler Lover Talking Against "Command"
Mayor of Moronia: Hitler Lover talking against "Command" "Economies."
Mayor of Moronia: Spanish Fascist Franco Lover talking against "Command" "Economies."
It's like Charles Manson, or Ted Bundy, or Jeffrey Dahmer talking against mass murder.
Am I the only one here to see the insane irony?
Lessons of the 1934 Minneapolis Labor Strikes - 75 Years Later
Here's the link:
http://www.icl-fi.org/english/wv/940/minneapolis.html
A PROGRAM TO FIGHT POVERTY, UNEMPLOYMENT, HOMELESSNESS
UPDATED VERSION OF A PROGRAM TO FIGHT UNEMPLOYMENT, HOMELESSNESS, POVERTY:
PROGRAM TO FIGHT POVERTY, UNEMPLOYMENT, HOMELESSNESS:
1. FIGHT FOR A $75.00 PER HOUR MINIMUM WAGE;
2. FOR A SHORTER WORK WEEK AT NO LOSS IN PAY; SPREAD ALL THE EXCESS WORK CREATED TO THE UNEMPLOYED; IF THE CAPITALIST EMPLOYING CLASS BOSSES SCREAM THEY CAN'T DO IT, TELL THEM TO OPEN THEIR BOOKS; IF THEY'VE MISMANAGED THEIR COMPANIES INTO THE GROUND, EXPROPRIATE THE COMPANIES AND MAKE THEM THE PROPERTY OF THE WORKING PEOPLE;
3. THE WORKING CLASS, THE POOR, THE HOMELESS, THE UNEMPLOYED, FOREIGN-BORN WORKERS, BLACK WORKERS, DID NOT CAUSE THE CRISIS OF CAPITALISM WHICH IS TRYING TO BRING US ALL DOWN WITH IT; THE CRISIS OF CAPITALISM WAS CAUSED BY THE CAPITALIST RULING CLASS ITSELF, BIG THIEVES WHO HAVE BROUGHT OUR COUNTRY AND BROUGHT THE WORLD TO RUIN, AND HAVE LED US TO THE BIGGEST UNEMPLOYMENT RATE SINCE THE GREAT DEPRESSION; WE NEED WORKERS' UNITY TO FIGHT THE CAPITALIST SYSTEM AND FIGHT TO ELIMINATE THE CAPITALIST SYSTEM AND MAKE A WORKERS' ORDER; WE DON'T NEED FASCIST, RACISTS, RIGHT-WING GARBAGE WHO SEEK TO DIVIDE US WORKERS BY SKIN COLOR, BY NATIONALITY, BY RELIGION, BY SEX, BY SO-CALLED SEXUAL ORIENTATION; THE FASCISTS, THE RIGHT-WING EXTREMISTS, ARE OUR ENEMIES, AND THEY KEEP LABOR DIVIDED FOR THE PROFITS OF THE EMPLOYING CAPITALIST CLASS, WHO STARTED AND CAUSED THIS CRISIS IN THE FIRST PLACE; SMASH THE FASCISTS, SMASH THE RIGHT-WING EXTREMISTS, SMASH THE KKK, SMASH THE NAZIS, ON THE ROAD TO SMASHING THE CAPITALIST SYSTEM AND MAKING A WORKERS' SOCIETY IN WHICH THERE WILL BE NO MORE UNEMPLOYMENT, NO MORE HOMELESSNESS, NO MORE POVERTY, NO MORE IMPERIALIST WARS THE BOSSES AND THEIR GOVERNMENT MAKE US CANNON FODDER TO FIGHT IN FOR THEIR DECLINING PROFIT RATES;
4. FIGHT FOR WORKERS' UNITY, NOT DIVIDING THE WORKING CLASS; FIGHT FOR UNITY OF NATIVE WORKERS AND FOREIGN BORN WORKERS, UNITY OF WORKERS BLACK, BROWN, YELLOW, RED, WHITE, RELIGIOUS, NONRELIGIOUS, MEN, WOMEN, GAY, STRAIGHT, IMMIGRANT, NATIVE-BORN;
5. UNIONIZE ALL NON-UNION WORKERS; FOR A MASSIVE MILITANT LABOR UNION CAMPAIGN TO ORGANIZE ALL THE UNORGANIZED, BOTH NATIVE AND FOREIGN-BORN WORKERS; KICK THE NO-FIGHT BUREAUCRATS OUT OF THE UNIONS, AND MAKE THE UNIONS INTO FIGHTING, CLASS WAR ORGANIZATIONS TO UNITE ALL WORKERS, IMMIGRANT, NATIVE-BORN, BLACK, BROWN, YELLOW, RED, WHITE, MALE, FEMALE, GAY, STRAIGHT, ALL RELIGIONS, NO RELIGION, AGAINST THE CAPITALIST EMPLOYING BOSS CLASS; WE CAN'T PLAY BY THE BOSSES' RULES; LABOR'S GOTTA PLAY HARDBALL TO START WINNING VICTORIES AGAINST THE BOSSES;
6. LABOR, ALL COLORS, ALL NATIONALITIES: WE DON'T NEED RACIST, FASCIST, BIGOTED SCUM WHO DIVIDE US; WE NEED WORKERS UNITY; BRING BACK THE CLASS WAR TACTICS OF THE 1930S THAT BUILT UNIONS: WE NEED MILITANT LABOR STRIKE ACTION; WE NEED PLANT, FACTORY, WORKSITE OCCUPATIONS BY THE WORKERS; WE NEED DAILY ELECTED LABOR STRIKE COMMITTEES; WE NEED DAILY LABOR STRIKE NEWSPAPERS; WE NEED WORKERS' LABOR "FLYING SQUADS" MOVING FROM PLANT TO PLANT, BRINGING OUT ON STRIKE ALL WORKERS; WE NEED MASS LABOR PICKET LINES THAT NO STRIKEBREAKER, NO SCAB, DARES CROSS; WE DON'T NEED BOOTLICKING FOR THE DEMOCRATIC AND REPUBLICAN PARTIES, BUT WE NEED RELIANCE ONLY ON OUR OWN CLASS STRENGTH, NOT ON DEMOCRATS, REPUBLICANS, COPS, LEGISLATURES, COURTS, GOVERNORS, PRESIDENTS, WHO ARE REPRESENTATIVES OF OUR CLASS ENEMY, THE CAPITALIST EMPLOYING CLASS BOSSES; NO COPS IN THE UNIONS, NO SECURITY GUARDS IN THE UNIONS, KICK THEM OUT, NO GUN CONTROL AND NO GUNS FOR COPS, NO GUNS FOR SECURITY GUARDS; DISARM AND SMASH THE KU KLUX KLANNERS, NEO-NAZIS, ANTI-ABORTION TERRORISTS, OTHER FASCIST, RACIST, BIGOTED, LABOR-HATING SCUM WHO KEEP LABOR DIVIDED;
7. LABOR MUST DEFEND THE DEMOCRATIC RIGHTS OF IMMIGRANT WORKERS, MINORITY WORKERS; EVERYONE WHO'S MADE IT HERE HAS THE RIGHT TO STAY; SMASH FASCISTS BY MASS MOBILIZATIONS OF UNIONS, WORKERS' ORGANIZATIONS, BLACK, BROWN, YELLOW, RED, WHITE, TO BUST UP FASCIST, RACIST ORGANIZATIONS; FOR THE RIGHT OF SELF-DEFENSE, INCLUDING THE RIGHT OF ARMED SELF-DEFENSE, AGAINST RACIST, FASCIST, RIGHT-WING TERRORIST SCUM; FOR MASS MOBILIZATIONS OF WORKERS' ORGANIZATIONS TO DEFEND ALL WORKERS AGAINST FASCIST TERROR;
8. EXPROPRIATE THE REAL ESTATE ROBBER BARONS; GIVE ALL THE UNUSED OFFICE BUILDINGS, UNUSED CONDOS, UNUSED APARTMENT BUILDINGS TO THE HOMELESS; FOR WORKERS' DEFENSE GUARDS, ARMED AND LEVELHEADED, TO DEFEND THE HOMELESS AGAINST VIOLENCE AND VIOLENT ATTACK;
9. FIGHT FOR A WORKERS' PARTY, FIGHT FOR A WORKERS' GOVERNMENT, FIGHT FOR A SOCIALIST AMERICA, FIGHT FOR THE FULL EQUALITY OF ALL WORKERS OF ALL PARTS OF THE WORKING CLASS, BLACK, BROWN, YELLOW, RED, WHITE, FEMALE, MALE, IMMIGRANT, NATIVE-BORN, UNDOCUMENTED, DOCUMENTED, GAY, STRAIGHT, RELIGIOUS, NONRELIGIOUS; NO SCAPEGOATING ANY PART OF THE WORKING CLASS; INSTEAD, FIGHT ROTTING, DECAYING CAPITALISM, WHICH IS THE ENEMY OF THE ENTIRE WORKING CLASS; EXPROPRIATE ALL MAJOR INDUSTRY, BANKING, CORPORATIONS, FINANCE, INSURANCE COMPANIES, UNDER A WORKERS' GOVERNMENT OF ELECTED WORKERS' COUNCILS; MAKE A SOCIALIST PLANNED ECONOMY; EXPROPRIATE ALL MAJOR INDUSTRY, BANKS, CORPORATIONS, BY A WORKERS' GOVERNMENT OF ELECTED WORKERS COUNCILS; MAKE A FIGHTING WORKERS' PARTY TO GET THAT!
--Allan Greene
THE FASCIST PLAN FOR PROSPERITY.
PROFESSIONAL CHARACTER ASSASSIN.
Put every communist, socialist, labor leader, politician, minority, perfessers, government supervisor, manager, and administrator to work doing physical labor. This will immediately eliminate the need for any taxes of any kind as they are a luxury the nation doesnt need and cant afford.
First Thing a Workers' Government Does: Execute Fascists
First thing a workers' government will do: track down and execute fascists, Nazis, KKKers.
what Kind Of Illicit Drug
What kind of illicit drug are you on Mayor?
There is NO GOVERNMENT OF ANY KIND that is free! It costs money to establish and run ANY organization, government or otherwise. Once God made Eve and doubled the human population, government and/or organization of some kind was necessary. As population increases, the need for government and/or organization rises in proportion.
Wise Merlin
Alllan, I Dropped Out Of School at l6. I Have Been Educating---
Allan, I dropped out of school at l6. I'm 88. I have
been studying for 62 straght years. MONEY IS ONLY
WORTH WHAT IT WILL BUY. You want to pay American
workers $75.00 an hour. I have a better idea. Why
not give all Americans a million dollars. We are all
millionaires, right? We all quit our jobs. We go to our
local food store. The store is open. ALL FOOD IS FREE
because the workers are all retired. Gas stations.
Same thing. All gas if free. All stores are open.
Everything in the stores is free. In no time at all you will
discover there is no food in ANY FOOD STORE. There is
no gasoline. Sick? Forget it. Hospitals are all closed.
We have a million dollars but IT WILL BUY NOTHING.
WE WILL ALL STARVE TO DEATH. I told you MONEY IS
WORTH ONLY WHAT IT WILL BUY AND IF YOU GIVE A
MILLION DOLLARS TO ALL AMERICANS IT WOULD BUY
NOTHING. God bless.
A Program to Smash Poverty and Unemployment
1. FIGHT FOR A $75.00 PER HOUR MINIMUM WAGE;
2. FOR A SHORTER WORK WEEK AT NO LOSS IN PAY; SPREAD ALL THE EXCESS WORK CREATED TO THE UNEMPLOYED;
3. FIGHT FOR WORKERS' UNITY, NOT DIVIDING THE WORKING CLASS; FIGHT FOR UNITY OF NATIVE WORKERS AND FOREIGN BORN WORKERS, UNITY OF WORKERS BLACK, BROWN, YELLOW, RED, WHITE, RELIGIOUS, NONRELIGIOUS, MEN, WOMEN, GAY, STRAIGHT, IMMIGRANT, NATIVE-BORN;
4. UNIONIZE ALL NON-UNION WORKERS; FOR A MASSIVE MILITANT LABOR UNION CAMPAIGN TO ORGANIZE ALL THE UNORGANIZED, BOTH NATIVE AND FOREIGN-BORN WORKERS;
5. LABOR MUST DEFEND THE DEMOCRATIC RIGHTS OF IMMIGRANT WORKERS, MINORITY WORKERS; EVERYONE WHO'S MADE IT HERE HAS THE RIGHT TO STAY; SMASH FASCISTS BY MASS MOBILIZATIONS OF UNIONS, WORKERS' ORGANIZATIONS, BLACK, BROWN, YELLOW, RED, WHITE, TO BUST UP FASCIST, RACIST ORGANIZATIONS; FOR THE RIGHT OF SELF-DEFENSE, INCLUDING THE RIGHT OF ARMED SELF-DEFENSE, AGAINST RACIST, FASCIST, RIGHT-WING TERRORIST SCUM; FOR MASS MOBILIZATIONS OF WORKERS' ORGANIZATIONS TO DEFEND ALL WORKERS AGAINST FASCIST TERROR;
6. FIGHT FOR A WORKERS' PARTY, FIGHT FOR A WORKERS' GOVERNMENT, FIGHT FOR A SOCIALIST AMERICA, FIGHT FOR THE FULL EQUALITY OF ALL WORKERS OF ALL PARTS OF THE WORKING CLASS, BLACK, BROWN, YELLOW, RED, WHITE, FEMALE, MALE, IMMIGRANT, NATIVE-BORN, UNDOCUMENTED, DOCUMENTED, GAY, STRAIGHT, RELIGIOUS, NONRELIGIOUS; NO SCAPEGOATING ANY PART OF THE WORKING CLASS; INSTEAD, FIGHT ROTTING, DECAYING CAPITALISM, WHICH IS THE ENEMY OF THE ENTIRE WORKING CLASS!
--Allan
A $75 Minimum Wage IS
A $75 minimum wage is ridiculous, stupid and TOTALLY UNWORKABLE in our OR any economy at this point in time.
What would happen if the minimum wage were suddenly raised to $75 per hour????? WE would experience AN INSTANT hyperinflation of ten fold. A car would cost $200,000, a loaf of bread would cost more than $200 per loaf and a gallon of milk would cost $600, a gallon of gasoline would cost $260.
NOTHING WOULD be solved. NOTHING. You would do better by LIMITING THE MAXIMUM income earned by anyone to say, $25 million dollars per year. Wages granted above that would be taxed at 100%. This would take hyperwealth OUT OF THE SYSTEM and would not affect inflation. Of course there would be other problems that would arise from this, BUT it would affect far fewer people and would not cause hyperinflation.
You may know a lot about Socialist concepts but you know LITTLE about how economics work.
Wise Merlin
Causes of Inflation and Price Rises
Merlin:
Not in a workers' state with a socialist economy we wouldn't experience hyperinflation.
By definition, a workers' state is armed workers, and armed workers' councils.
In the early years of the revolutionary socialist Soviet republic, before Stalinism rose to power there, they used armed workers committees to insure prices stayed down and capitalists, speculators, merchants, could not exploit increases in wages of workers.
We would have to do that in an American workers' state.
You're working on the assumption of a capitalist economy and capitalist state, not a workers' state and socialist economy. Of course prices go up in a capitalist state based on monopoly capitalism, because monopolist capitalism permits monopoly capitalists to raise them without serious caps on prices.
But in a workers' state, first of all, we'd expropriate without compensation all the "commanding heights" of the economy -- banks, financial institutions, all the big corporations, companies, factories, industries, mines, mills, have them owned by the workers' state (that is, by the government of workers' councils, elected workers' councils), and impose strict price controls on individual industries and not let anyone in positions of temporarily managing such industries raise prices beyond the capacities of the working people to pay them.
Additionally, workers in all industries would be empowered to elect workers' committees in every industry to supervise and superintend every factory, mine, mill, bank, corporation, industry, from within, keep their eyes on the books and ledgers, elect where possible managers and bosses, and the economy would be under workers' control, which means, accountable to the workers employed in them.
Again, that's what would keep down prices. Inflation is due to private capitalists raising prices because they're able to do so. But in a workers' state, that wouldn't be allowed.
If any individual factory, industry, enterprise, tried, the elected bosses would be kicked out and replaced by bosses elected by the workers who would not raise prices on the workers.
You know a lot about capitalism, but you think that's the end all and be all of economics, and you're ignorant of how workers' states in the past have, in fact, stopped inflation in the egg.
--Allan
One ONLY Needs To Live
One ONLY needs to live another 60 or 70 years and the Capitalist inflationary spiral will produce a $75 an hour minimum wage.
Wise Merlin
Merlin, WE May Not Have To Wait 70 Years.
Merlin, we may not have to wait 70 years. Some economists are predicting "runaway" inflation may be the only way to rid ourselves of our l4 TRILLION DOLLARS in our national debt. It is possible that in 20 to 30 years we may be earning $600,000. a year average instead of our current average salary of about $60,000. a year. Naturally, all prices, taxes will increase in proportion and that is how we will finally pay off the national debt. Since I and most seniors have all our money in certificates of deposits with banks, all our money will become completely worthless. I will not worry. I will, fortunately be quite dead. God bless.
Allan, You obviously have never been in business.
Allan, you obviously have never been in business.
Most socailists have never been in business.
I have. I worked l6 hours a day, 7 days a week
from my home to build up a mail order business.
In l950 I was working 40 hours a week, 5 days
a week and about 60 hours a week in my mail
order enterprise for 3 years before I could afford
to quit A & S and work full time at mail order in
my own office and warehouse which I rented.
I was in business 22 years and had an average
of about l6 workers. I NEVER MADE $75.00 an
hour. Now you socialists are going to
expropriate my business and pay my workers
$75.00 an hour. Don't bother sending me
catalog, Allan. I could not afford not even a
simple straight pin let alone binoculars, watches,
toys, clothing, etc. I lasted 22 years. Allan, baby,
you would not last 22 SECONDS. God bless.
Captain Al: A Response
Captain Al: you were a self-employed worker.
You call yourself a "businessman."
But you were, in essentials, a self-employed worker.
You were not a monopolist capitalist.
You were a self-employed worker.
I think you keep coming back to this subject, because for some reason, you've gotten the misimpression that Marxists favor confiscating or expropriating self-employed workers' little self-employment enterprises.
But that is simply false.
I've posted, repeatedly, Jim Cannon's book, Socialism on Trial. Cannon made it crystal-clear that Marxist socialists are not interested in confiscating or expropriating self-employment businesses of self-employed workers.
But you keep repeating this lie.
Why? Why don't you stop lying about what I favor?
Is it because you're so partisan for the Democrats that you must repeat this lie in order to undermine what I have repeatedly said and make it seem like Marxist socialists or Marxist communists favor confiscating little self-employment businesses of self-employed workers, when we don't?
Why don't you stop lying about what I favor?
Here again is the post of Jim Cannon's book, Socialism on Trial. He made it crystal-clear in there what real Marxists favor.
And real Marxists don't favor confiscating the self-employment businesses of self-employed workers.
Please stop lying.
--Allan
***
Here's the links to Jim Cannon's book, Socialism on Trial. Read it, please. Then, stop lying, will you?
Socialism on Trial, by James P. Cannon (1941) (American Socialist Workers Party leader James P. Cannon’s Verbatim Testimony in a U.S. Courtroom in Minneapolis, Minnesota, in 1941, in the 1941 Trial of 29 Supporters of the Socialist Workers Party Under the Smith Act):
Index/Contents:
http://www.marx.org/archive/cannon/works/1941/socialism/index.htm
Introduction:
http://www.marx.org/archive/cannon/works/1941/socialism/index.htm#intro
Part 1, Verbatim Trial Testimony of James P. Cannon, National Secretary, Socialist Workers Party:
http://www.marx.org/archive/cannon/works/1941/socialism/ch01.htm
Part 2, Verbatim Trial Testimony of James P. Cannon, National Secretary, Socialist Workers Party:
http://www.marx.org/archive/cannon/works/1941/socialism/ch02.htm
Part 3, Verbatim Trial Testimony of James P. Cannon, National Secretary, Socialist Workers Party:
http://www.marx.org/archive/cannon/works/1941/socialism/ch03.htm
Part 4, Verbatim Trial Testimony of James P. Cannon, National Secretary, Socialist Workers Party, Plus “Defense Policy in the Minneapolis Trial: A Criticism,” by Grandizo Munis:
http://www.marx.org/archive/cannon/works/1941/socialism/ch04.htm
Part 5, Political Principles and Propaganda Methods: Defense Policy in the Minneapolis Trial, by James P. Cannon, National Secretary, Socialist Workers Party:
http://www.marx.org/archive/cannon/works/1941/socialism/ch05.htm
Part 6, Political Principles and Propaganda Methods: Defense Policy in the Minneapolis Trial, by James P. Cannon, National Secretary, Socialist Workers Party, Continued from Part 5:
http://www.marx.org/archive/cannon/works/1941/socialism/ch06.htm
Part 7, Traditions and Guiding Ideas of the Socialist Workers Party in Defense Activities, by George Novack:
http://www.marx.org/archive/cannon/works/1941/socialism/ch07.htm
Allan, I Was Never "Self-Employed. I was a Capitalist.
Allan,I was never "self-employed. I was a capitalist. I invested all my money, thousands of dollars, in binoculars, watches, silverware, jewelry, toys, etc. in my business which I started from home. I either learned how to sell these products or "eat" them. I sold them successfully for 22 years. After 22 years, even with all my experience, I knew I was heading for the "toilet" so I sold all my merchandise in stock, some at a loss, and went to work from age 52 for a mortgage company and a bank for l6 years. I did build up the business and for the 22 years, I employed an average of about l6 workers. You say you socialists would not expropriate small businesses such as mine. How large a company would it have to be before you socialistic plunderers and pirates would confiscate my business? Love you, Allan, but I do not like socialists who specialize in expropriating and confiscating businesses of Any size. God bless.
Sears Started His Mail Order Business From Home---
Richard Sears, a telegrapher, started his mai;l order business, the same as I did, from his home over l20 years ago. His first item was watches. He sold them at a good discount to other telegraphers and they recommended their friends and relatives and his business just grew and grew. He went into partnership with a guy named Roebuck and evetually bought him out and the company changed its name from Sears and Roebuck to Sears. Sears was the largest retail operation in the U. S. for years until K-Mart took over and, of course, Wal-Mart came up and now Wal-Mart is the largest retailer. Allan, you socialists could not run a mom and pop candy store let alone a giant corporation such as Wal-Mart and so stop all this nonsense about how you would do it. Why in the hell don't all you damn socialists get together and start your own business right now like I did and Sears did? Any idiot can expropriate someone else's business. You have to be really smart to build up a business as Richard Sears and Sam Walton did and you thieving, lazy socialists "ain't" that smart or ambitious. God bless.
Allan, Okay, You expropriate all McDonalds, Burger Kings, etc.
Allan, okay, you expropriate all McDonalds.
Burger Kings, etc. That is the easy part. You
pay all your workers in McDonalds, Burger King
$75.00 an hour. WHERE IN THE HELL WOULD YOU
GET THE $75.00 AN HOUR TO PAY YOUR WORKERS
BY SELLING BIG MACS FOR $3.00 AND FRIES FOR
$2.00? You would not expropriate one damn
McDonald's or one Burger King. YOU WOULD
DRIVE EVERYONE OF THEM OUT OF BUSINESS.
You socailists do not know one damn thing
about business but you sure know how to drive
them ALL OUT OF BUSINESS. Don't you dare
get angry with me, Allan. IT IS ABOUT TIME
SOMEONE TOLD YOU THAT YOU DON'T KNOW A
DAMN THING ABOUT BUSINESS. That is the truth.
I am intelligent enough to know that I am stupid
in hundreds of subjects. You are intelligent
enough to know you are stupid when it comes
to business. Love you, Allan, but you had this
post coming to you for a long time. Kill the
messenger? Hell, I am 88. Don't bother. I will
be dead soon enough. God bless.
We must fight for what's NECESSARY
Merlin, you fight only for what the bosses, capitalist Democratic politicians, tell us is POSSIBLE.
I fight for what is NECESSARY.
It's time for labor to GET OFF OUR KNEES AND FIGHT FOR WHAT IS NECESSARY FOR OUR CLASS, BLACK, BROWN, YELLOW, RED, WHITE, NATIVE-BORN, IMMIGRANT, MALE, FEMALE, GAY, STRAIGHT, ALL RELIGIONS, NO RELIGION, ALL NATIONALITIES, ALL BACKGROUNDS.
Screw this fighting for what is "possible" under capitalism.
We need to get rid of capitalism and fight for what is necessary.
NOTHING less will do.
NOTHING.
And all the reformist, Democratic Party boot-licking in the world WON'T SOLVE SQUAT.
--Allan
You IGNORE Reality
You ignore reality Allan.......AND YOU KNOW IT.
Your Socialist frothing is NOT WORKABLE. Doesn't matter iffin you are fighting Republicans, Democrats, Capitalism, or whatever, your Socialist ideas ARE NOT WORKABLE.
Imagine if suddenly everyone had a minimum $3,000 per week ($75/hour X 40 hours) to spend. How long do you think the shelves of EACH AND EVERY STORE WOULD BECOME EMPTY? Three days, a week? The prices (due to natural basic supply and demand) would shoot through the roof and go into orbit.
Just think of what would happen to the cost of tomatoes when a person picking those tomatoes is making $75 per hour. Tomatoes would cost $8 a piece. A can of processed tomatoes would be $20.
It is easy to wave your Socialist wand and demand $75 an hour. BUT WHERE is that money going to come from?? DO NOT IGNORE THE QUESTION! BE HONEST FOR ONCE. THINK IT THROUGH COMPLETELY. GIVE A WORKABLE ANSWER!!!!!!
You see these Socialist ideas and say, "Oh Yeah, NOW THAT IS FAIR!" BUT, YOU do not think through the consequences of these changes, the obvious negatives and the more subtle dangers. That is your OVERWHELMING FATAL FLAW.
You are the "Socialist of Oz" the little man behind the curtain projecting complete fantasy and calling it truth.
Wise Merlin
Again, your reality is bosses' reality.
Merlin:
Again, your reality is bosses' reality.
A workers' state would be by definition armed workers replacing the police of the old regime, elected workers councils confiscating all the major banks, industries, corporations, factories, mines, mills, finance, putting it all under a central socialist plan, and administering it by elected workers' councils. Price controls have in the past been implemented in workers' states by armed price control committees of workers. And we'd do that again, so merchants, speculators, petty managers of small enterprises, wouldn't exploit the higher wages of workers.
You're thinking not of a workers' state and a socialist economy, but of capitalist reality, in which capitalist monopolists have the ability to raise prices anyway they see fit.
But that's not the reality of which I'm talking. Your reality is capitalist bosses' reality. Mine is the reality of a workers' state, with the workers in charge, keeping down the prices by the might and power of the organized and empowered working class organized in workers' councils as the basic organizations of state power of the new workers' state.
--Allan
No Person
No person, no company, no government, no society can sell a tomato for one dollar when it costs eight dollars to put the tomato on the store shelf. IT AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN, ALLAN.
Wise Merlin
What's needed is armed workers' price control committees
What's needed is, armed workers' price control committees.
Arm the farm workers in the fields to form price control committees, because they're workers like the rest of us, and they grow the tomatos.
Arm the workers in the cities to form price control committees to keep the merchants, speculators, capitalists, from jacking up prices.
Arm the oil workers to form workers' price control committees and keep the oil bosses from jacking up the oil prices and gas prices.
What's needed is armed price control committees to keep the prices of goods and services down, and fight for the highest working class wages possible.
We don't need the class division between capitalist employers and workers anymore. The capitalist ruling class of bankers, factory owners, corporation owners, have destroyed our country and destroyed our planet.
The insurance company owning class thieves and the drug company owning class thieves have even forced Obama to back down on the public option and all the Democrats, including Nelson here in Florida, will not back a public option giving the masses of uninsured workers a shot at no-cost health care insurance and coverage for all.
We need a socialist revolution to get free quality health care for all, and we need a revolutionary workers' party fighting for a workers' government of elected and armed workers' councils and expropriation -- confiscation -- of all major finance, insurance companies, banks, drug companies, corporations, oil companies, the entire capitalist ruling class to be expropriated by the working class, if we're going to move forward and make society a decent society for all of us.
We don't need this class division between capital and labor.
We need a workers' society, a socialist society, in which there is equality of black, brown, yellow, red, white, immigrant, native-born, men, women, gay, straight, people of all religions and people of no religions, people of all ethnic groups, period.
Nothing less will do -- nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing.
--Allan
IT ENCOURAGES AUTOMATION AND FOREIGN MANUFACTURE.
PROFESSIONAL CHARACTER ASSASSIN.
When employers have to pay people $75 an hour the jobs will vaporize. Most places will become automats. This, and the pols will suck most of the pay back in high taxes.
Allan sniffs drainpipes.
Mayor: Hitler-Lover, Fascism-Lover, Talking Against "Command"
Mayor of Moronia: Hitler Lover talking against "Command" "Economies."
Mayor of Moronia: Spanish Fascist Franco Lover talking against "Command" "Economies."
It's like Charles Manson, or Ted Bundy, or Jeffrey Dahmer talking against mass murder.
Am I the only one here to see the insane irony?
Mayor's reality is bosses' reality - that's only "reality" for h
Mayor, a self-avowed, publicly open Nazi-lover and fascist, thinks only in terms of bosses' reality, not a reality in which the class of workers have confiscated -- expropriated -- all major industries, mines, mills, banks, corporations, finance, and established a workers' state in which there simply will no longer be obscenely overpaid CEOs or, on the other hand, obscenely underpaid masses.
Openly publicly avowed Nazi-lovers and fascism-lovers like Mayor have, it is true, always liked smashing labor, smashing unions, smashing organizations of economic self-defense of the working class, and that's why fascism-lovers like Mayor liked the fascist Spanish totalitarian labor-smashing government of Franco in Spain and Franco's helper, German Nazi fascist totalitarian labor-smashing dictator, Hitler. So it's understandable why fascist Mayor endlessly puts out here his fascist propaganda against workers', unions, labor, higher wages for workers, the concept of a workers' party and a workers' government comprised of elected workers' councils of the working class that has expropriated all major industries, banks, mines, mills, corporations, finance, factories, and established a workers' state of elected workers' councils.
Mayor, a fascist, knows the armed workers' defense guards of a workers' state would hunt down fascist murder inciters, and hunt down fascist killers, and hunt down Nazi murder inciters, and hunt down fascist KKK racist murder inciters, and smash them all to smithereens. He knows militant socialist are the implacable enemies of fascist murder inciters like him.
So he endlessly propounds and propagates his lying propaganda which really reduces to, smash the working class, kill the working class, smash working class economic defense organizations, kill union organizers, kill socialists who advocate for unions and for workers' government.
That's what Mayor's "program" reduces to.
It reduces to kill you working people and keep you working people enslaved to rotten, low, stinking wages.
He wants an America of Nazi slave labor death camps for most of you workers who want improvements in your living conditions, working conditions, financial conditions.
That's his "program," death camps and slavery in the service of the profits of the capitalist ruling class who have destroyed our country and our planet.
His reality is bosses' reality.
--Allan
Your reality is bosses' reality not workers' reality
Your reality is bosses' reality, not workers' reality.
I fight for what workers, labor, employees objectively need to live, not what bosses and their capitalist politicians tell us is "possible."
You fight for what bosses and their politicians tell us is "possible," which, to you, means, what's "possible" within the capitalist system.
I fight for what's possible in a technologically and industrially advanced production-based global socialist economy that's moving, not stagnating as this rotting, decaying, dying capitalist system is doing.
That's what I fight for.
It's achievable on a planned, socialist basis which shortens the work week at no loss in pay, spreads all the excess work thereby created to the unemployed, and starts the process into motion of a series of 5-year socialist plans the entirely rebuild the entire manufacturing, and public, infrastructure of the country, bridges, levees, railroads, highways, airlines, everything top to bottom.
You're living according to what private capitalistic bosses tell you is "possible."
I fight for what the masses of workers -- the overwhelming majority -- objectively require to live.
You don't.
I do.
That's the difference.
You limit yourself to what capitalist Democrats and capitalist Republicans tell you is "possible."
I don't.
You do.
--Allan
Allan, You Completely Ignored
Allan, you completely ignored the suggestion of capping the MAXIMUM wage at 25 Million dollars.
By capping the MAXIMUM WAGE at 25 Million dollars one DOES NOT affect supply and demand (other than putting DOWNWARD pressure on prices). Inflation would be limited and this would tend to stop inflation.
Example: Let's look at the top 25 Hedge Fund managers for 2007. They made ON AVERAGE $787 MILLION DOLLARS EACH. That totals 19.625 BILLION DOLLARS. But if we cap their wages at $25 million dollars and tax the rest at 100%, these individuals would receive a total of $625 million dollars and the federal government would receive 19 BILLION DOLLARS, eventually allowing taxes for the masses to GO DOWN.
The hedge fund managers are still multi-millionaires (in one year) and the society would benefit from the 19 BILLION DOLLARS extra in the fed coffers. Prices are not forced up and the ratio of wealthy to poor DOES NOT EXPAND as much.
Your $75 per hour minimum wage is a$$backwards.
Wise Merlin
Wise Merlin
There ain't gonna be hedge funds in a workers' state, Merlin
There ain't gonna be hedge funds in a workers' state, Merlin, because there ain't gonna be capitalism in a workers' state.
A workers' state will be, by definition, armed and elected councils of workers of all colors, all nationalities, both sexes, organized in elected workers' councils, who've confiscated -- expropriated -- all major industries, banks, corporations, mines, mills, financial institutions, and put them all under a socialist central plan, to be administered by the government of armed and elected workers' councils. That is, it's the doing away of the private capitalist system, and with it, all these wasteful hedge funds and hedge fund managers who make more money than god.
The reason they make that money is because private for profit capitalism permits them to do that.
But a workers' state -- a revolutionary workers' state -- will expropriate all the companies, firms, banks, mines, mills, corporations, make them socialist property -- social property of the armed working class, the majority of the people -- and in doing that, make these fat cats have to go to work like the rest of the ordinary people on a basis of civil and civic equality and on the basis of the same wages everybody else makes at normal occupations. If they don't know how to do production work or other kinds of normal work people do because of the wasteful lives they led under capitalism, we'll train them how.
But there's not going to be handfuls of people making their livings by clipping coupons and getting dividends at home.
There is going to be pensions for the old, for those unable to do gainful work, because we're not, unlike Mayor, barbarians, and we think everyone who has worked has a right to retirement at a good retirement pension. We think those unable to work because of physical or mental disability have a right to a decent income and not to be punished because they have a physical or mental disability. We'll provide. We will impose free quality health care for all, and we'll impose free education unconditionally for all from kindergarten all the way through higher education, and we'll train everybody who needs training, including remedial education if need be.
But you're still thinking capitalistically, Merlin. There's not going to be hedge funds in a workers' state. The proletariat will expropriate -- confiscate -- all major industry, banking, finance, corporations, and all those little people who might have originally relied on some pensions from these hedge funds will get their pensions and retirement instead from the general public fund of a workers' state. But we're going to expropriate -- seize -- the major industries, banks, corporations, capitalist combines, and substitute for them and their greedy hedge fund managers workers' government and pensions and retirement and benefits from a social workers' state's fund.
--Allan
I fight for expropriation of the capitalist system. You don't.
I fight for expropriation of all major banking, finance, industry, and a series of 5-year socialist plans based on a socialist production society in which everything is to be rebuilt.
You don't.
I do.
I fight for what's objectively in the interests of the overwhelming masses of workers, employees, labor.
You don't.
You fight for what the bosses' capitalist politicians, the bosses' Democrats and bosses' Republicans, say is "possible" in the framework of the capitalist system.
But the capitalist system is rotting, decaying, dying on its feet, and it's long, long, long overdue for extinction.
I fight for what the masses of labor needs.
You fight for what the rotting, decaying, dying capitalistic system will tolerate.
The only way there's going to be a forward movement and forward explosion of the productive forces of society and the smashing of all barriers to both national and international production is, a global socialist economy, and if we started in this country, with the resources we have, it would soon spread to other countries, and all barriers to international production, and with it, all barriers to employment of all labor at decent wages would fall down very soon and in not very long a time.
You want to confine everything to the limits imposed by this rotting, stinking, decaying capitalist system.
I say, let capitalism perish, because it can no longer meet the objective needs of the masses of humankind in this country or worldwide.
Let's smash it and get on with the business of doing what's in the objective interests of the masses of humankind.
Why should the only productive and creative class in society, labor, be destroyed so capitalism can continue?
That's your perspective.
That's not my perspective.
Dream on, Merlin, dream on.
--Allan
Allan
Allan, you are dillusional and you live within a fantasy world that CANNOT become reality. The only person you can/are convincing is yourself.
WHO is going to pay the $75 per hour in your world? WHERE will the money come from? How would you stop hyperinflation?
ANSWER THE QUESTIONS! PROVE YOUR THEORY!! CONVINCE US WITH FACTS!!! Make me a believer!!!! You write hundreds of paragraphs about your Socialist ideas, AND YET, YOU CANNOT ANSWER THESE BASIC QUESTIONS?
These are basic questions YOU CANNOT ANSWER, which proves your FANTASY IS NOT WORKABLE. I suppose you also think that if you give a clerk a dollar for an item they should give you $50 in change.
Wise Merlin
Production, Not Consumption, is the Basis for Civilized Society
Merlin:
Production, not consumption, is the basis of any civilized society, and, in fact, of any human society at all.
Globally, capitalism's been stagnating for at least a hundred years. Growth rates globally for capitalism have been stagnating. Growth in one sector is at the expense of no-growth in other sectors of the planet.
That's because of the profit-based nature of the system itself, which in history eventually becomes a barrier to its own continued development.
Every 10 years or so, there are economic collapses. They stem from the literally crazy situation of there being too much of everything, but no takers. That's called, a crisis of overproduction. And it's what happens roughly every 10 years in the capitalist system.
But some crises of overproduction are worse than other crises of overproduction.
And when you have a crisis of overproduction "introduced" by or "led into" by a catastrophic financial crisis, as has happened in the past year or two, then your crisis of overproduction cannot resolve itself of its own doing.
Unemployment has not stopped growing. It's only growing a bit more slowly, that's all.
The economic stimulus package that Obama and the Democrats got passed won't stop the growth of unemployment. All it will do is, slow things a bit. Not too long from now, the unemployment will start growing at the bad rates it was growing not long ago. Right now, there's this temporary little upturn, and Obama and his advisors and the Democrats are saying, see, the economic crisis is over.
But it's not.
The reason it's not is, this crisis is different from most of the every-10-years crises that have been experienced both by this country and by other capitalist countries. It's a much more serious crisis, because it's overlain with enormous debt.
You can't have a civilized society without production. Without production, you may have a graveyard or anything else you please, but you cannot have a community of living human beings.
And globally, capitalist production growth rates have gotten lower and lower and lower over the past 100 years. And there's nothing the bosses of the system, or the governments representing the bosses of the system can do about it.
That's because capitalism is profit-based.
And all capitalist systems suffer one fundamental problem.
That fundamental problem is called, the tendency of the rate of profit to fall.
The bosses of the system, and the governments of the system representing them, can tinker around the edges with that problem.
They can slash social welfare expenses.
They can slash public education expenses.
They can slash health care insurance or not provide it.
They can slash workers' wages.
They can speed up workers and make fewer workers produce more goods than more workers used to produce.
That will only temporarily get out of the mess, however, because in the long run, the system is finished. It can't survive. And it can't survive because the profit motive, which once in history enabled and expedited and helped on production, now stands in the way of production.
The only way to really explosively expand production is, international socialist planning and an internationally planned production-based socialist economy, administered by the producers (that is, by the working people, the class who produce everything).
Profit was once the enabler of production.
But it no longer is.
Now, it's the barrier of production.
You think a $75.00 minimum wage is unrealistic.
Actually, I think it's rather too low.
If globally and in this country we changed over from a capitalist profit-based economic system to a socialist nonprofit-based economic system in which all the producers (workers, employees) were paid closer to the real value of the labor power they expend, we could quite quickly not only get out of the situation of homelessness, unemployment, no health care for 48 million people, but within a pretty short period of time, we'd have a socialist-based American production system that was fairly humming along at a high growth rate.
Furthermore, if based on the American socialist example, that spread to other countries, as it probably would, with global cooperation of different socialist economies, the growth rate globally would so increase and speed up on, moreover, much shorter work weeks simultaneously with much higher rates of pay (which, of course, would absorb all the unemployed into gainful employment at good wages), that internationally, it wouldn't be too long before all the poverty on earth would have been eliminated, most or all of the serious illnesses and serious diseases on earth would have been eliminated, every kid on earth was able to be fed, housed, given health care, and, indeed, every family on earth given that.
But that implies an explosion of labor productivity globally, and that won't happen so long as the profit motive now stands in the way, like a barrier that is a serious barrier that will keep all humankind backwards and behind the times forever.
There is the alternative that the capitalists and their governments will hang on for dear life. They always do try to hang on for dear life.
And at a certain point, they'll decide, we're tired of simply slashing wages, keeping no unemployment benefits coming into the masses of unemployed, slashing working hours, and so on.
They'll decide, we have to go to war, imperialist war, against other capitalist countries to get more loot and more territory from which to suck more profits, and we can't get those profits unless we seize somebody else's territory, somebody big.
And I said, somebody big.
Up to now, they've been engaged in violence against mainly small countries whose peoples don't have the means of self-defense.
But sooner or later, the Americans are going to come to blows with the Germans, the Russians, the Japanese. Historically, particularly, the Americans have over the past 100 years been off and on at it with Germany and Japan, and that's going to happen again. Only this next time around, there'll probably be a military confrontation with Russia as well. And, additionally, since the American government doesn't like the fact 75 percent of China's economy is state-owned, the American government will sooner or later decide to come to blows with China, too.
And, you see, Merlin, that's the basis for the coming Third World Nuclear War which the bosses of the world and the governments they represent will eventually involve themselves and the rest of us in.
But the problem with that perspective is, it's a perspective for destruction of the human race.
So as I see it, the alternatives for the human race are what the great German and Polish revolutionary socialist of the early part of the last century, a woman named Rosa Luxemburg, said were these: socialism, or barbarism.
And the reason for that is, if there's a Third World War, it will be a pushbutton war, and if there's a pushbutton war, Merlin, you can kiss your keister good-bye, and you can kiss the keisters of your grand-kids good-bye, and the rest of us can kiss our own keisters and the keisters of our loved ones good-bye.
I think a socialist production-based economy and the socialist re-industrialization and socialist re-modernization of the American economy is a hell of a lot more of a realistic and viable and feasible alternative than muddling along and trying to hang onto the old profit-based capitalist system that stand directly in the way of human progress like a Rock of Gibraltar.
And if we're not going to have multi-billionaires and multi-millionaires and multi-trillionaires, because when there's a change to a socialist economy, we're all going to be through with that crap, then we can engage in a socialist production-based economy based on giving the best incentives to the vast majority of us, the working class, who, after all, are the real producing class in society.
So I think my idea is much more realistic than your idea, Merlin, which, I think, is most unrealistic.
Best for now,
Allan Greene
You STILL Have Not
You STILL have not answered the three questions!
WHO is going to pay the $75 per hour in your world? WHERE will the money come from? How would you stop hyperinflation?
Wise Merlin
It Comes from Production, Merlin.
It comes from production, Merlin.
Instead of a class of multi-trillionaires, multi-billionaires, multi-millionaires, we cooperate and employ ourselves. We plan the economy to avoid the boom-bust cycle of capitalism. It's cooperative, and cooperatively owned, and cooperatively administered globally. The enormous science, technology, industry, is put to work cooperatively. Instead of handfuls of humans exploiting (extracting profits from) the enormous majority, everyone cooperates in producing.
Money's symbolic. It's symbolic of food, clothing, shelter, comforts. We eliminate ruling classes who are a waste on social production. We have cooperative production, administer everything cooperatively, and move forward in a balanced, planned-out way.
Basically, if done first here, nationally, then globally, it would lead in little time to a situation in which the enormous inequities, horrible problems we've faced up to now, would be things of the past.
And as for $75 per hour, that's paltry compared with what everyone would eventually be getting. $75 per hour is merely a small or modest symbol of what people would finally be able to start consuming in a very short time. That's contingent on putting the technology, machinery, science, to work to do that. Machines become the slaves of people rather than the other way around.
But it's production which becomes the basis of people -- very easily -- being able to consume roughly the equivalent in value terms of $75 per hour. That's nothing, actually. It's only for starters.
You're still operating on the basis of present reality, which is very non-productive reality, and very stingy reality, the stingy and non-productive reality of a capitalist society which has a tiny ruling class of multi-trillionaires, multi-billionaires, multi-millionaires sucking an enormous amount from the rest of society. This is a complete waste.
The point of a socialist economy is, everyone works on a basis of rough equality and rough parity. At the start, of course, incentives will still be needed, and some will still earn more than others. But over time, as machines replace human labor for all the worst, most dangerous, most unsafe sorts of labor tasks, labor time will occupy less and less and less of human time, and more and more time will become accessible to humans.
But $75 per hour is nothing compared with what humans will eventually over a generation or so be able to be getting.
Production, however, is the basis. And the profit motive today stands in the way of production. That's why production is stagnating. Profit stands in the way. The point is to take that barrier out of the way of production. That won't happen short of the expropriation of all major banks, corporations, industries, mines, mills, factories, by the working people, and their transfer to the ownership of society as a whole, which is to say, to the producing class -- the working people, who are, after all, the only real producing class in society who produce real value.
$75 per hour is nothing. It's only a start.
You're still thinking in terms of existing reality. I'm thinking in terms of the aftermath of the working people of at least one major capitalist country, and hopefully a couple working together, taking power into their hands and beginning the process of moving forward.
The process of enhancing production will be faster, of course, if it's done with the efforts of at least several countries together, but if it were just the U.S. who went socialist first, that would still be a mighty inducement to production of the wealth that would easily enable us to pay $75 per hour, with little problem at all, because of the enormous natural and material and human resources existing in this country already.
--Allan
By the Way, by "Eliminate Ruling Classes," I Mean Class Divides
By the way, by "eliminating ruling classes," I don't necessarily mean going to war to physically eliminate them. I mean, eliminating class divides. It's up to them. If the majority comes to a socialist perspective, and the ruling class minority goes along, there's no reason they can't go to work with the rest of us on a basis of civil equality with everybody else.
If, however, they use gun, bomb, sword, and their hired fascist thugs, to try to thwart majority will, then it's another issue altogether, and a socialist-minded majority would in that situation have the right to defend its gains against a violent ruling class minority.
--Allan
OH I See
OH I see, you make a lot of FUTURE PROMISES, you ALLOW disparity of income as an incentive, and you HOPE there will be machines to increase production, and you envision A FAR OFF TIME WHEN EVERYONE WILL BE EQUAL.
SOUNDS LIKE THE SAME BULLSH*T EACH AND EVERY SOCIALIST AND COMMUNIST MOVEMENT PROMISED AND FAILED TO ACCOMPLISH FOR THOSE WHO EMBRACED THE UTOPIAN FUTURE OF SOCIALISM AND COMMUNISM.
If you have a $75 minimum wage, what would be the maximum wage? If you install "INCENTIVES" FOR CERTAIN KINDS OF WORK, you end up emulating a Captialist motivation in your Socialist society. If a particular inventor creates a breakthrough in a type of machine, how much "EXTRA INCENTIVE" will you grant that inventor? If an individual is competely UNmotivated to do ANYTHING PRODUCTIVE, how you you handle that individual? What will you do to remedy the natural disaparity in productivity between the over-achiever and the under-achiever? Who decides who will become a doctor and who will become a ditch digger?
The first thing that develops in a "Everone Equal" Socialist society is corruption.
Wise Merlin
It's nothing to do with "future promises," Merlin, but productio
Merlin, it has nothing to do with "future promises," but rather, with production. You're still thinking in terms of consumption. But changing a capitalist state to a workers' state implies changing over to a society based on the socialist re-industrialization and socialist re-modernization of the country. Our manufacturing and industrial and other infrastructures are shot to hell and back. What's objectively and imperiously necessary is, to put everybody to work at high wages to repair everything, modernize everything, upgrade everything, make everything safe and get rid of all elements in the infrastructure that are unsafe, and that's a big job. It's going to require literally millions and millions and millions of workers and employees to do it.
My point about incentives and wage disparities was historically momentary. Right now, the working class in this country is an economically heterogeneous class, not an economically homogeneous class. I suspect at the start, some workers with more skills are not going to want to see any lessening of their wages, and they shouldn't have to. Rather, the aim should be to bring everybody's wages up, not bring anybody's wages down. That's the point of a workers' order. But $75 dollars per hour is nothing compared with what science, technology, and machinery have the objective capacity to do for a workers' society. And you're missing that.
I'm assuming a society humming along, that's fully productive, with all employed, and the reason all will be employed is, we'll shorten the work week at no loss in pay, and spread all excess work thereby created to the unemployed. For sections of workers who need retraining, we'll retrain them in what has to be done, including with remedial education programs whereever needed. We'll nationalize all the private colleges and make all schooling from kindergarten through higher education free and accessible to all workers on demand, and if they have some difficulties in the initial phases of education in, say, college, we'll give them remedial training. We will try to mix up vocational, technical, and liberal arts educations so people become well-rounded, and that means both historically those who are not used to vocational and technical education and work on machinery and traditional "blue-collar" work will be trained in it while those not used to higher education and more generalized and abstract learning concepts will also get that and be trained in it. We are trying to move in the direction of a society in which there will gradually be a lessening of the discrepancy between mental and manual labor, and in which people are all-rounded, which we don't have now. Right now, the capitalist governments and societies channel some parts of workers into one kind of work, blue-collar semi-skilled, unskilled, or skilled work, and other kinds of workers into management and skilled white-collar work. We're going to mix it up and try to give everybody training in everything over time.
No, it's not going to happen overnight. But you are being a child if you think any improvement of society happens overnight. After Lincoln and the North ended slavery, freed black slaves had to be re-trained and given schooling and education, because before the end of slavery, it had been illegal to educate black people in the Southern states. It took and takes time.
Additionally, we're going to try to gradually replace all unsafe, dirty, dangerous kinds of work with machinery and retrain everybody over time for non-dangerous, safe, decent occupations. But while they're still employed at dangerous occupations (like, say, coal mining, or construction work, or similar dangerous occupations), they will have to be paid triple what other workers get, because that's only right for those employed in the most dangerous occupations to be paid much more than those who don't work in such dangerous occupations.
But over time, the aim has to be to do away with dangerous work and make it the work of machines.
You think that can't be done, eh? Haven't you ever heard of robotics? Haven't you ever heard of what some topnotch Japanese scientists have been doing with robotics? I have. Why shouldn't we put machines to work doing dangerous and unsafe work, not humans? And meanwhile, instead of cutting people's pay for gradually lessening their participation in that kind of dangerous work, we can raise their pay as they gradually pull away from the dangerous and unsafe kinds of work and get into the safer and more human-friendly kinds of work.
But $75 bucks per hour? Nahh, that's paltry compared with what objectively science and technology and machinery today can produce if humans are trained in using even today's very wildly brilliant machinery and technology. There's nothing unrealistic at all about $75 per hour. You're still thinking in capitalistic terms, Merlin.
I foresee councils of scientists, inventors, geeks of all kinds, cooperating as part of technical consulting councils, overseen and superintended by a government of elected workers' councils, advising the workers' councils of what they have come up with. And for awhile, I foresee that some will probably make a bit more than others.
But I also foresee that as education takes hold throughout the entire society, and more and more and more workers become more all-rounded human beings, more and more and more will become scientists, engineers, physicists, artists, writers, and as gradually there's a lessening of the difference between mental and manual labor, and as the work week gradually gets less and less and less, and as the pay for everyone gets more and more and more, eventually, we'll see a dying away entirely of class divisions. It will take a generation or a couple generations, but if we create the objective material conditions for it, it will happen.
And if we get to that point, eventually, there will come a dying away of all repressive organs of the state -- police, prisons -- for want of function.
Eventually, I foresee a time in which maybe the maximum work week of each worker will be 15 minutes per week, and everyone being paid such a high rate of pay that everyone can live fulfilled and decent lives.
I don't think it will happen for those alive today, but I think if we were to make that change tomorrow or in the near future, we could expect it for our grandchildren.
That's kind of how I see things.
--Allan
ASSERTIONS WITHOUT EVIDENCE.
PROFESSIONAL CHARACTER ASSASSIN.
Youre forced to wonder why Allan hasnt emigrated to Cuba or Vietnam or North Korea of China, if socialst life is so wonderful.
Mayor: Hitler-Lover, Fascism-Lover
Mayor of Moronia: Hitler Lover talking against "Command" "Economies."
Mayor of Moronia: Spanish Fascist Franco Lover talking against "Command" "Economies."
It's like Charles Manson, or Ted Bundy, or Jeffrey Dahmer talking against mass murder.
Am I the only one here to see the insane irony?
Here's an openly self-avowed lover of fascism, admirer of Spanish fascist Franco, admirer of Hitler, talking against me and lying that I'm some kind of Stalinist, when I'm not.
Does anyone not see the insane irony here?
Mayor's a right-wing totalitarian nut.
Anybody not see that?
And he has the gall to call me a totalitarian Stalinist?
Anybody? Is anybody awake out there?
Mayor wants all you working people slaves of bosses
Mayor wants all you working people slaves of capitalist employing class bosses and their rotting, decaying, stinking, falling-apart capitalist profit system.
He loves fascism, and has openly publicly stated he likes fascism, and he loves it because he wants an America of slave labor death camps like Nazi fascist Hitler made in Europe in which any working class leaders who organize economic self-defense organizations of the working class are murdered by the fascist government, any socialist working class leaders organizing the working class to get a working class socialist government are murdered by the fascist government, any union organizers are murdered by the fascist government, any people advocating women's equality are murdered by the fascist government, any people organizing for gay equality are murdered by the fascist government, any people organizing for immigrant equality and unity of immigrant workers with native workers in the fight for a workers' government and workers rule are murdered by the fascist government.
That's the "program" of Mayor -- murder of most of us, fascist and Nazi and KKK-type murder of most of us.
--Allan
Hitler Lover and Spanish Fascist Franco Lover Mayor Rants On
Hitler lover and Spanish fascist totalitarian dictator Franco lover Mayor rants on.
And this slimy fascist has the chutzpah to try to make egalitarian and anti-Stalinist Marxists like me out to be some sorts of "totalitarians" -- after he's written favorably about Hitler and Franco in the past.
I wonder if Mayor is extraditable to Spain for having participated in crimes against humanity at the behest of the fascist terrorist dictator, Franco, whom he loves, while he lived there.
Of course, fascist Franco was helped to power in Spain by German Nazi fascist totalitarian dictator Hitler.
And Mayor admires both.
And here this guy is lying that I am some kind of Stalinist.
Oh, well, a slimy fascist liar is a slimy fascist liar is a slimy fascist liar is a slimy fascist liar is a slimy fascist liar.
There is nothing new under the sun.
--Allan
ALLAN CANT PROVE ANYTHING.
PROFESSIONAL CHARACTER ASSASSIN.
The communism Allan advocates has failed everywhere its been tried.
Mayor: Hitler-Lover, Fascism-Lover, Franco-Lover
Mayor of Moronia: Hitler Lover talking against "Command" "Economies."
Mayor of Moronia: Spanish Fascist Franco Lover talking against "Command" "Economies."
It's like Charles Manson, or Ted Bundy, or Jeffrey Dahmer talking against mass murder.
Am I the only one here to see the insane irony?
Here's an openly self-avowed lover of fascism, admirer of Spanish fascist Franco, admirer of Hitler, talking against me and lying that I'm some kind of Stalinist, when I'm not.
Does anyone not see the insane irony here?
Mayor's a right-wing totalitarian nut.
Anybody not see that?
And he has the gall to call me a totalitarian Stalinist?
Anybody? Is anybody awake out there?
Yeah, and Mayor's Boy, Hitler, Brought Germany Down in Flames
Yeah, and Mayor's Nazi-fascist boy, Hitler, brought Germany down in flames while screaming he was going to "save" Germany.
Go figure.
LOST IN A SOCIALIST WONDERLAND.
PROFESSIONAL CHARACTER ASSASSIN.
A fair rule of thumb is: Minimum Wage equals the price of a decent Happy Meal at McD's or BK. If the Minimum Wage goes to $75, El Supremo Happy Meals will rise to $75.
Real wealth is the result of increased productivity of goods and services people want. The Chinese have yet to figure it out, preferring to employ 2000 coolies to shovel dirt one operator and machine could excavate in a fraction of the time. They guy who drives the dragline does more work than 2000 coolies.
Email, online banking and bill paying, file sharing, etc. are murdering the postal service because of increased efficiency, decreased costs, and 24/7 availability. Stamps cost 42 cents, email is less than a penny. Money saved is money earned.
Mayor: Hitler-Lover, Franco-Lover, Fascism-Lover, Nazi-Lover
Mayor of Moronia: Hitler Lover talking against "Command" "Economies."
Mayor of Moronia: Spanish Fascist Franco Lover talking against "Command" "Economies."
It's like Charles Manson, or Ted Bundy, or Jeffrey Dahmer talking against mass murder.
Am I the only one here to see the insane irony?
Here's an openly self-avowed lover of fascism, admirer of Spanish fascist Franco, admirer of Hitler, talking against me and lying that I'm some kind of Stalinist, when I'm not.
Does anyone not see the insane irony here?
Mayor's a right-wing totalitarian nut.
Anybody not see that?
And he has the gall to call me a totalitarian Stalinist?
Anybody? Is anybody awake out there?
Everything's Based on Production, Not Consumption
Everything's based on production, not consumption.
Money's only a reflection of produced goods and services.
That's all it is. It's a symbolic representation of value transactions. That's all it is.
Value is broken down into 2 things: use-value (that is, something that's useful to a person), and exchange value (that is, what something in trade will get at some given moment in time).
But exchange value is really a disguise or a veil. It is a disguise or a veil for value proper.
Value proper is, previously expended labor-power -- that is, previously expended human effort in the production of goods and services.
Humans in their living are primarily concerned with use. Exchange only comes secondarily.
Value proper implies something in every good or service previously expended to make it.
That's called, labor power -- what humans do to make goods and services.
All exchange does is, trade in previously made amounts of labor power.
The measure of the real value of a good or service at some given moment in historical time is, the amount of socially necessary labor-time embodied in its production.
"Socially necessary" means, what's necessary at that particular historical moment in time. Today, for instance, producing a pair of shoes involves much more machinery than it did 200 years ago. Two hundred years ago, it was more labor intensive. Today, it's much more machine intensive. That means, in value terms, there's less specifically human effort involved in the production of a pair of shoes today than 200 years ago, when there was a great deal more labor power involved in the production of a pair of shoes.
So "socially necessary labor time" refers to labor-time in a given historical moment in historical time.
Ultimately, right-wingers like you can scream, yell, shout, but government for the capitalists you love ultimately is part of their costs of business and their costs of production. Government is not impartial. Ultimately, it's the state -- the cops and prisons -- who defend the business owning capitalist class you right-wing whackjobs love.
So here, again, government is a cost of production for private capitalist businesses. That's why, for instance, when UPS labor strikers went on strike in 1998 in Tampa, the cops (the government, the state) arrested them, but did not arrest the capitalist owning bosses for locking them out of where they were working in Tampa. You like that. I don't, and I'm on the side of the UPS Teamsters who went on strike.
But there's a class line there between capital and labor, and you're on the side of capital.
Capital, however, needs government as a cost of production, a cost of doing business.
And when the capitalist class are faced with a situation when the labor movement is too powerful or too threatening to them, they resort to a totalitarian labor-smashing and labor-hating fascist Nazi state like they did in Germany when they put Hitler into power in January of 1933 to smash the labor movement.
That was the basic reason they put Hitler into power -- to smash the German labor movement.
So all your fascist lies are lies, because you love a powerful fascist government. You even said that in previous posts. You said you admired fascism, because fascist governments shoot people for saying things you thought idiotic. You whitewashed and said you admired the labor-smashing and labor-hating fascist totalitarian right-wing government of Franco in Spain, and you said you'd lived there. So you're all lies and hypocrisy, fascist lies and fascist hypocrisy, because you fascists love a police state when it's directed against labor, the only productive class (literally -- labor is the class who produce both use values and exchange values in society) in society.
Your goddamned parasitical capitalist bankers and bosses are the ones who've looted America blind in the past 40 years with their derivatives, their credit default swaps, their building up the indebtedness of America to 62 trillion dollars and the indebtedness of the globe to 600 trillion dollars, but when a militant socialist like me calls for expropriating -- confiscating -- these thieves, you, like any Nazi-loving fascist creep, show your true colors by whitewashing the scum I favor expropriating or confiscating in the public or social interest.
You're all lies with no rationality in you at all.
You're simply a whore and mouthpiece for the super-rich in this country, and that's all fascists like you ever were and ever will be.
--Allan
People dont pay enough taxes or they'd get better stuff.
If people paid more money to the government they'd get more stuff because the government can buy it cheaper than the poor can. The government gets the best discounts on stuff.
Commie Boy is no Commie, but is a Right-winger in Disguise
"Commie Boy" is no "commie," but is a right-winger in disguise who, in advocating higher taxes (which revolutionary socialists do not advocate), is trying to make it out like Marxist socialists advocate more burdens on the working class. He is a liar, and I suspect he is one of the right-wing extremists who previously posted on this site under a different name.
--Allan
When Was The Last Time
When was the last time YOU spent $600 for a hammer or $1,100 for a toilet seat at Wal-Mart?
Wise Merlin
Real Unemployment Versus Official Unemployment - Amy Goodman
Real Unemployment Versus Official Unemployment: Amy Goodman’s Democracy Now for August 10, 2009:
Link to Text of Headline 1:
http://www.democracynow.org/2009/8/10/headlines#1
Link to August 10, 2009 Audio of Democracy Now Broadcast:
http://www.democracynow.org/
Allan